Why Aiming in FA OFF with a Stick is a huge disadvantage

Ok, I get that. Thanks.

Funnily enough I don't use the mouse for rotation, I use the keyboard and you could easily use a hat on the Throttle of a HOTAs to work in exactly the same way.
Just for clarity; when I say 'rotation', I mean pitch / roll / yaw. :)
The stuff that moves your nose, rather than actually moves the ship
 
Ok, I get that. Thanks.

Funnily enough I don't use the mouse for rotation, I use the keyboard and you could easily use a hat on the Throttle of a HOTAs to work in exactly the same way.
for clarificaton
rotation in flight physics means rotation on all axes
so pitch yaw and roll
thats the rotation
 
Wow, OK. So Flight assist on except for thrust.

I think you would have to accept some serious limitations compared to FAoff as it is now to get that. Reduced turning rate, slower acceleration etc. And if it was ever implemented it would probably be given to all control methods maybe defeating the point of this.

I really can't see anyone going for this but like I said, good luck.
 
exactly this as it was also suggested from some participants in this thread

i dont see personally why this should change the fight model at all. espacially when it is an additional option.
but maybe i miss something.
The flight models between FAOff and FAOn are different and distinct. Braking on any one directional thrust axis is much stronger in FAOn and weaker in FAOff (which can be mitigated with trichording). Acceleration on the directional thrust axes is significantly stronger in FAOff. Rotations are faster in FAOff (hence people primarily FAOn may still flip it off for a quick spin).

This seems to be a purposeful design choice - the rationale being that FAOff is harder to learn, so it specifically rewards people that master it.

How would you reconcile between the two flight models if you have a hybrid form between FAOff and FAOn? Have the changed directional axes but keep the slower rotations of FAOn to symbolise the dampened control input?
 
no my personal approach would be that the flight model as it is now in fa off will be kept completly.
i would also not change the impulse in view of the rotation thrust so the rotational speed would be also kept.
but as soon the impulse from the joystick gamepad or which device ever stops the rotation of the ships also stops.

in my opinion there is no negative outcome of this at all. just a better controllable rotation for not mouse players.

i dont want the star citizen flight model in elite at all but in view of the combined mode of translation and rotation this can be seen very good there. as it was stated in the first page of this thread. the decoupled mode in star citizen works exactly like that.
 
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Ant_Solo said:
I would like a hybrid FAon / FAoff for HOTAS where pitch roll and yaw have counter thrust automatically applied to stabalise the ship but everything else works like FAoff
well i am afraid its not that easy the stick does not just stop when its in the move. it goes back to center and on the way back it keeps giving impulse.
 
no my personal approach would be that the flight model as it is now in fa off will be kept completly.
It would be a wholesale change to how FAoff flight model works, the feel and usage would completely change. These are dramatic changes that will have lot of knock on effects.


in my opinion there is no negative outcome of this at all. just a better controllable rotation for not mouse players.
There would be a significant outcome, if it is positive or negative is debatable. This model would become very attractive to players who do not fly FAoff much or at all. It would be very easy to fly rather than needing to work at FAoff skill and it would probably kill off a lot of the FAon flight mechanics and in doing so would change the way the game feel completely. No need for the blue zone etc

My view is this would be a terrible thing for Elite.

i dont want the star citizen flight model in elite at all but in view of the combined mode of translation and rotation this can be seen very good there. as it was stated in the first page of this thread. the decoupled mode in star citizen works exactly like that.
It does sound a lot like SC flight model which IMHO isn't as good as ED's.

Also, this would need a lot of developer time and significant testing. I can't see any up side to all this investment. Elite has lots of things that could do with time and effort put in to them and it is clear that that investment can't be granted on a whim. A complete re-write of the flight model seems unlikely.
 
There would be a significant outcome, if it is positive or negative is debatable. This model would become very attractive to players who do not fly FAoff much or at all. It would be very easy to fly rather than needing to work at FAoff skill and it would probably kill off a lot of the FAon flight mechanics and in doing so would change the way the game feel completely. No need for the blue zone etc
at last a reasonable disussion

i dont think so. you need the same skill.
you have the same need to control and manage your 3 flightvectors with translation.
if you dont you will just drift anywhere without control. the skill in fa off flying is mostly based in controlling your flight vectors with 6 thrusters and directing the boost in them.
this is fully needed even if their is assist with rotation.
 
Also, this would need a lot of developer time and significant testing. I can't see any up side to all this investment. Elite has lots of things that could do with time and effort put in to them and it is clear that that investment can't be granted on a whim. A complete re-write of the flight model seems unlikely.
if this cant be done without changing the flight model then it should be dropped.
but i think just implementing an additional option for rotation can be done seperetly. we will see. maybe...
 
well i am afraid its not that easy the stick does not just stop when its in the move. it goes back to center and on the way back it keeps giving impulse.
You also don't want it to register any thrust as you are returning to center? This is just weird. There are some situations where that will make life easier but there are also lots where you lose fine control over your movement. You don't always want to thrust then stop, you also need to thrust hard then lighter.
 
i dont think so. you need the same skill.
you have the same need to control and manage your 3 flightvectors with translation.
if you dont you will just drift anywhere without control. the skill in fa off flying is mostly based in controlling your flight vectors with 6 thrusters and directing the boost in them.
this is fully needed even if their is assist with rotation.
Removing the requirement to deal with pitch, roll and yaw would make FAoff significantly easier. Not as easy as FAon but much easier than FAoff. It isn't unresonable to think it could become the default model for FAon CMDRs and, as I said, change the feel of the game.

if this cant be done without changing the flight model then it should be dropped.
but i think just implementing an additional option for rotation can be done seperetly. we will see. maybe...
How your ship responds to your input is a huge part of what the flight model is, this would be a significant change of that.

i didnt write this. and no for sure.

but this is a very detailed problem which will have to be sorted from devs. in case this will ever happen.
Ok good. I was trying to understand what you want rather than trying to put words in your mouth.

I think a solution to this problem is unlikely, you need that fine control. I think it is better to accept that the return to center is part of the movement.

Any attempt at a solution to this would be horrible and need a handing over of some complex movements to the computer.
 
I think a solution to this problem is unlikely, you need that fine control. I think it is better to accept that the return to center is part of the movement.
fully agreed. the fine adjustments are a must.
 
Below is my favorite video of my favorite weapon of all time being used masterfully. Yamato's range control is breath taking.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn8W0ktizWQ&t=69s


Yamato is using short range blaster railguns. Of course, Yamato is the finest pilot in game. But if you are a Hotas user, you will never ever come even close to Yamato's precision with short range blaster rail guns. Yamato's skill withstanding.

If you are a hotas user and can use srb rail guns consistently well, kudos to you. You are one in thousands.
 
Below is my favorite video of my favorite weapon of all time being used masterfully. Yamato's range control is breath taking.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn8W0ktizWQ&t=69s


Yamato is using short range blaster railguns. Of course, Yamato is the finest pilot in game. But if you are a Hotas user, you will never ever come even close to Yamato's precision with short range blaster rail guns. Yamato's skill withstanding.

If you are a hotas user and can use srb rail guns consistently well, kudos to you. You are one in thousands.
just point and shoot tbh
 
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