Why Aiming in FA OFF with a Stick is a huge disadvantage

Try it yourself and you will immediately notice the difference
This has nothing to do with any fine motor skills we have trained in using the mouse, but is solely due to the software support that the relative mouse provides.

I first try to align the rail gun in the middle of the sun with a high quality joystick. As soon as I have succeeded, I deviate from this intentionally and try to align myself in the middle of the sun again as fast as possible.

In the first part of the video I do this with the joystick and in the second part of the video I do it with a mouse with relative mouse with full strength.

The difference is clearly visible here. With the mouse I can easily and quickly align myself in the middle of the sun with no great effort with fine adjustment but with the joystick I deviate much further from the sun and it takes much longer and it is much more difficult to place the rail gun in the middle of the sun again because I have to compensate the rotations initiated by the joystick myself completely exactly with counter movements of the stick.

The reason that this is much easier with the mouse is that it supports the opposite rotation movements that the relative mouse offers and acts as a kind of stabilizer in FA OFF mode.

Source: https://youtu.be/hpRLALj89QY
 
very true, and not much you can do to change that imo. a way to compensate that issue a bit (at least for me) was to use tools like "joycurve".
setting the initial sensitivity very low and extend it exponentionally really helped my rail aim.
 
Try it yourself and you will immediately notice the difference
This has nothing to do with any fine motor skills we have trained in using the mouse, but is solely due to the software support that the relative mouse provides.

I first try to align the rail gun in the middle of the sun with a high quality joystick. As soon as I have succeeded, I deviate from this intentionally and try to align myself in the middle of the sun again as fast as possible.

In the first part of the video I do this with the joystick and in the second part of the video I do it with a mouse with relative mouse with full strength.

The difference is clearly visible here. With the mouse I can easily and quickly align myself in the middle of the sun with no great effort with fine adjustment but with the joystick I deviate much further from the sun and it takes much longer and it is much more difficult to place the rail gun in the middle of the sun again because I have to compensate the rotations initiated by the joystick myself completely exactly with counter movements of the stick.

The reason that this is much easier with the mouse is that it supports the opposite rotation movements that the relative mouse offers and acts as a kind of stabilizer in FA OFF mode.

Source: https://youtu.be/hpRLALj89QY
Try FA off with an X-Box controller and let me know how that goes ;)
 
The reason it is easier is because you have finer motor control with the ends of you fingers, where you control a mouse, than you do with your elbow, where you control a stick.

FAOff does not grant any stabilisation, every movement has to be applied by the CMDR. This has been explained to you a number of times, I can't understand why you persist with this nonsense.
 
this is one of the things we will have tomorrow in our suggestions thread.
@Anlepanfu i am exactly the same opinion here.

the idea is fa off only affects the movement in space but not the rotations (i.e. pitch yaw and roll) this has all the advantages of the fa off flight of elite but stable rotation for stick pilots. and all as option of course so that the actuel flight physics is not harmed or technics pilots have developped.
 
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@Ant_Solo

relative mouse... the simplest way to explain it is that relative mouse enables micro inputs without the required counter thrust.
Where joysticks and game pads must return to center when you stop movement. Returning to center is what causes the problem.

"micro inputs" thats the deciding word here and the slider regulates how "micro" this inputs are basically you stop the mouse and the game mechanic gives counter thrust when you stop the mouse or move it to the other direction.

and this is not about relative mouse. this is about hotas, hosas
 
Your use of counter thrust does not make any sense. Counter thrust is thrust in the opposite direction, when you return your stick to the center you are not applying counter thrust, you are applying decreasing levels of thrust in the same direction.

When you push a mouse in one direction you apply thrust in that direction, there is no counter trust unless you push it in the opposite direction.

When you push a stick in a direction it applies thrust in that direction until you return it to the center. That is simply a feature of sticks.

Plenty of really good CMDRs fly FAoff with Hotas, there are advantages and disadvantages to both methods.
 
only a hand ful cmdrs with stick fly really perma fa off in this level. all others need toogling (including lego robot btw.)
and this is not about the people who have thousends of hours to train its about the masses. and again this thread is not about relative mouse its exclusively in view of HOTAS or HOSAS in perma fa off related to rotation.
 
The OP mentioned some spurious and factually incorrect statements about how relative mouse works as a explanation for your claim so it is fair for me to address it.

Please read my explanation and try and take it on board because it might help with a gap in your understanding.

As for buffs for sticks, curves would be a really great addition. If you want flight assist for sticks there is already a feature built in to the game you can use.
 
well in your book. two experienced software engineers have a different opinion here. so lets agree to disagree here.

and the main fact that rotation with stick and perma fa off without toogling is extremely complicated and not fair in view of relative mouse is without any doubt.
 
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very true, and not much you can do to change that imo. a way to compensate that issue a bit (at least for me) was to use tools like "joycurve".
setting the initial sensitivity very low and extend it exponentially really helped my rail aim.
I did. It doesn't help. It only adds noise to the signal. I gave up and just reach over to the mouse when it's Rail Gun time.
X.
 
I think in general mouse is just much more precise, but its not an issue if u are not into pvp and flying faoff with hotas makes me feel like being in actual spaceship. FA ON? Meh, i dont want microsoft flight simulator. M+Kb? Jeez feels like some sort of fps game.

Up to your preferences, i guess.
 
only a hand full cmdrs with stick fly really perma fa off in this level. all others need toggling (including lego robot btw.)
and this is not about the people who have thousands of hours to train its about the masses...
I have thousands of hours with a stick, FA/Off toggled. Full FA/Off is doable, but it is extremely tiring. With the mouse it's no problem.
X.
 
As a HOTAS user I tend to switch between both FA off and on depending on what manoeuvre I am trying to do. In combat I use FA to get on target quicker when doing a loop or straffing a large target. Once I am on target FA goes back on to stabilise the ship.

Flying all the time with FA off, I have tried it with the HOTAS and I found it nearly impossible.
 
Not this again. Your comments about how relative mouse works are still factually incorrect. This is not a matter of opinion.

You're correct that maintaining high precision with time-on-target is more difficult with a joystick than a mouse, simply because people are more precise with small hand movements than large arm movements. The former is required for mice, the latter for joysticks.

I have watched your video, and it appears to demonstrate poor rotational control in the first part of the video - nothing more, nothing less.

FA off fighting should be difficult to learn or master, but I have yet to see a popular control scheme on which proper aim is not achievable.
 
There are advantages and disadvantage to HOTAS and M&K, that is why people use different controls. There are advantages and disadvantages to both FAon and FAoff. FAon has amazing counter trust compared to FAoff, you decelerate so much quicker. Optimal flight would use both FAon and FAoff in either control systems.

Most people who go FAoff all the time do it because it is challenging and fun and they want to git gud.

Adding some flight assist to the HOTAS Flight Assist Off would cheat players out of an opportunity to experience that with HOTAS.
 
@Robert Maynard we know but things can change - maybe. the idea of the devs was afaik that stick doesnt get overpowered and to give full newtonien flying which is fine.
but where is the problem to give folks the fa off only for translation mode which could be activated as option.
and on the first part stick is an disadvantage atm and not balanced this option would not make the stick overpowered just balance it.
we are looking in the direction of odysee. maybe there is a possibilty.
 
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