Rebalancing older content. Enabling new players to "catch up" to the veterans.

The folk starting in 6 months time would still be at the same starting point as a person starting fresh in Odyssey, unless there is another entirely new set of upgrades and currencies introduced between Odyssey launch and then. So there wouldn't be any need to "do" anything at that point.
So, by the same logic, things may as well remain exactly as they are today - anyone joining today, or when Odyssey arrives on 19th, will still have to gather the same materials as everyone else before them?

The entire point of this suggestion was to evaluate just how much stuff there is, and how adding an entirely new progression system in the form of space legs is going to affect the sheer number of systems at play. Existing players will already have had the option to go get their engineered ships and can purely focus on suit upgrading, whereas a new player would have to juggle both systems.
So, a player buying in today will have a fully engineered fleet by the 19th?

It just appears that an expansion to the game, which will add exactly the same mechanics to new and existing players alike, is disadvantaging a player who joins on launch day as they will have to do the same collections as everyone else would have had the choice to do beforehand.
 
The reason other MMOs do it is because otherwise new players wouldn't be able to access the cool new content they've been advertised without putting in a few months of grind first. This argument doesn't apply to Odyssey since for the planetary content you're actually better off with a small ship and engineering doesn't matter.

Should engineering be streamlined anyway? Maybe a bit, but I think the main issue here is that if grinding mats or superpower ranks is the reason you log into the game, you're going to burn out. That G5 Corvette won't be worth it in the end. You need to find something else that draws you to the game and ED isn't doing a great job helping you.

Missions and other activities should be more involved and rewarding in themselves, there should be more short and medium term goals so that we don't keep focusing on the endgame but rather on what we can accomplish today or tomorrow while having fun.
 
As a new player, I don't want the path shortened. I am a casual player and look forward to years of working towards being "LORD ZORG, MIGHTY KING OF THE GALAXY!!! (all ur worldz r belong to me!!!!)"
 
Everything else aside, unlocking the engineers is rarely time consuming and often great fun to try and do efficiently. Ideally that'd not be changed for new players as it's helping them explore the various types of gameplay.

I think the only one I'd maybe change is Lei Chung's 50 marketplaces - it's about the only one I end up 'grinding'. OP complaining about a few trips to ferry some rares .... nah.
 
Everything else aside, unlocking the engineers is rarely time consuming and often great fun to try and do efficiently. Ideally that'd not be changed for new players as it's helping them explore the various types of gameplay.

I think the only one I'd maybe change is Lei Chung's 50 marketplaces - it's about the only one I end up 'grinding'. OP complaining about a few trips to ferry some rares .... nah.
Lets flip it around and pretend FD were about to design unlocks for the first time. Two questions would need to be answered:
1) Will adding unlocks make the game more enjoyable in the first place?
2) If so, what would be the most enjoyable unlock 'quest' design?

For the sake of argument, lets go with 'yes' for 1). Then we can, especially now with EDO, come up with all kinds of cool quest chains. For example: steal a thing from a ship using limpets, bring it to some contact, who gives you the location to a secret base you must infiltrate to grab something the engineer needs.

I think that beats "fly from A to B with literally nothing happening in between. Then do it again. Then do it again. Then do it again. Then do it again. Then do it again. Then do it again."

You can vaguely defend it by saying it is not 100% horrible because they can 'try to do it efficiently' and 'explore new types of gameplay'. But its literally a FedEx quest but without the usual gameplay associated with it. And in the end of the day almost none of the unlocks are interesting, varied or challenging. There is so much room for improvement here, lets not waste energy defending that mediocre stuff that is currently in place.
 
Everything else aside, unlocking the engineers is rarely time consuming and often great fun to try and do efficiently. Ideally that'd not be changed for new players as it's helping them explore the various types of gameplay.

I think the only one I'd maybe change is Lei Chung's 50 marketplaces - it's about the only one I end up 'grinding'. OP complaining about a few trips to ferry some rares .... nah.
I think the unlocks is kinda OK way. You can make such things interesting. The problem is that you have to unlock so many useless stuff before you get to the useful ones and with the bloat of mats required is like a cookbook you only open for 1 recipe - might as well rip out the page and throw away the rest.
 
Then we can, especially now with EDO, come up with all kinds of cool quest chains. For example: steal a thing from a ship using limpets, bring it to some contact, who gives you the location to a secret base you must infiltrate to grab something the engineer needs.

Now THAT would be a much better way of introducing the engineers. 1000x better than "More tea please, ok more tea please, ok more tea please". Maybe with some voiced missions, Engineers actually communicating with you, like Ram Tah's guardian quest video.

it's helping them explore the various types of gameplay.

While I do agree with this statement, and the different methods of unlocking engineers reflect this (mining materials, exploring a certain distance, gathering up combat bonds). I do not see how getting a player to do 6 loops to deliver a bunch of rare goods is benefiting the player more than just one. They're still learning about rare goods (although not their true intention, which is to sell over longer distances), just not asked to repeat the same task several times.
 
You can vaguely defend it by saying it is not 100% horrible because they can 'try to do it efficiently' and 'explore new types of gameplay'. But its literally a FedEx quest but without the usual gameplay associated with it. And in the end of the day almost none of the unlocks are interesting, varied or challenging. There is so much room for improvement here, lets not waste energy defending that mediocre stuff that is currently in place.
Sure, but the OP is suggesting 'please add Win Button, kthxbai'. I'd still say mediocre is better than a win-button.

Even the Rares - gives the possibility that the player might dig into why they can't collect more, and if the supply is always the same (and then come across BSG states etc). ofc most just complain on the occasions they can't do it in one trip (often possible).

These can always be argued from both sides - many complain Palin is just flying 5k and suiciding: others plan their first exploration trip. Some learn the difference between bounties and bonds when they inevitably turn up with the wrong one. And some learn about where to mine by unlocking Selene.

Sure, cool quest chains would be cool, but at some point you're still going to need to go 'now you need to try combat / mining / exploration'. Otherwise all the chumps would just start a CMDR, head to Sothis, and remain clueless about everything else in the game. Though adding more unlocks to point out to people where they can get engineering mats would be good - maybe then there'd be less crying about how impossible things are :)
 
I've played for 5 years and have a net worth of about 2 billion. In one CG (one) a player can earn 8 billion right now...
A new one? Could I earn them with my limited unengineered fleet. (Not running the Boston-Portsmouth route 24-7 either, mind you - I like to mix things)

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And credits are nice and that, but I never called for any better earnings. All I wanted was not extra grindy crap put on top. Credits don't mean much to me personally - mats are the pain I'm not taking.
And the rouletto clicker. I pass.
 
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A new one? Could I earn them with my limited unengineered fleet. (Not running the Boston-Portsmouth route 24-7 either, mind you - I like to mix things)
You take a sidey, you go to a place, and you do the relog dance for a bit. Its also the only way to participate because any normal way of playing means you are not high enough to gain anything from it. Its completely 100% broken due to the relog exploit that is 1) still not fixed, and 2) always used by the grind monkeys in the community. Its one of the most glaring blunders of FD: the entire game is 'balanced' (and I am being generous here) around those who exploit the flavor of the day broken mechanic. Do that for a day and you have literally everything. Ignore whatever is broken at the time and you can play for literally thousands upon thousands of hours and never get close to a FC.
 
Sure, but the OP is suggesting 'please add Win Button, kthxbai'.
That is just not true. But every. single. time. someone proposes something to be streamlined into a series of activities that are fun the old timers show up to say "u just want iWin!" "my childhood was horrible so you should be beaten with belts daily too!" and "it is not so bad, if you exploit and cheat you can have everything after one or a few soul-crushingly terrible 'game' sessions". All of these arguments are deeply flawed and serve only to defend the status quo. At the end of the day this game is hopelessly pathetically balanced, people 'blazing their own trail' will take forever to get anywhere, lots of 'unlock mechanics' are mindless grindfest belonging to 90s MMOs and exploiting and cheating is constantly encouraged by FD.

Nobody ever says in a general gaming forum "man, I remember playing ED, it was fantastic. Especially the engineer unlocks were amazing and thrilling, I wish I could do the experience again!". It is the opposite: frequently people here consider resetting their saves but end up concluding having to re-unlock the engineers is such a horrible prospect they rather just not bother at all. I have seen this over and over here. I have literally never, ever, as in not even once, see anybody look forward to it.

If something is so terrible that absolutely nobody wants to do it again, and having to do it again is such a terrible experience many people rather not play at all, maybe it is time to change it.

There is a lot of room for improvement and it is a shame to see the old meme of 'conservative forum dads' opposing any reasonable change or suggestion instantly with a parade of the classic non-arguments. If it were up to this part of the community the new player experience would be so much worse than it is today, and I hope FD continues to ignore this sentiment in this part of the community and continues to improve and refine parts of the game that were and are obviously pretty terrible.
 
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That is just not true. But every. single. time. someone proposes something to be streamlined into a series of activities that are fun the old timers show up to say "u just want iWin!" "my childhood was horrible so you should be beaten with belts daily too!" and "it is not so bad, if you exploit and cheat you can have everything after one or a few soul-crushingly terrible 'game' sessions". All of these arguments are deeply flawed and serve only to defend the status quo. At the end of the day this game is hopelessly pathetically balanced, people 'blazing their own trail' will take forever to get anywhere, lots of 'unlock mechanics' are mindless grindfest belonging to 90s MMOs and exploiting and cheating is constantly encouraged by FD.

There is a lot of room for improvement and it is a shame to see the old meme of 'conservative forum dads' opposing any reasonable change or suggestion instantly with a parade of the classic non-arguments. If it were up to this part of the community the new player experience would be so much worse than it is today, and I hope FD continues this part of the community and continues to improve and refine parts of the game that were and are obviously pretty terrible.
But - that's just not true. Last CMDR I started took maybe 1 month to end up with engineered ships - including a 'vette. And that was while staying in the starter zone, which slowed things down a lot. No FC, but I also didn't use any relogs or grinding. I just don't recognise what you say the game is.

And no, my childhood wasn't horrible and the OP shouldn't be beaten daily with belts. The game has demonstrably been made easier over time, so where you get the idea that these poor new players are being made to suffer ... I have no clue.
 
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I left a few months after Horizons because my ancient graphic card could no longer cope. I returned last year because I ran across a screenshot of a water world I loved, and fancied a re-visit (sadly nerfed by the look of it). Removed the layer of dust on my old Cobra and found I could be in an AspX in no time at all. Some things have changed for the better, but some for the worse. And the latter are almost all to do with making life for new players easier....1) Advanced docking computer - do you really need help to launch? 2) Supercruise assist - just to allow you to go afk instead of concentrating 3) Loss of engineer RNG - what's the point of an 'experimental' effect if the experiment can't go wrong? And so forth. But the biggest disappointment is that because of these things and many others, Elite is no longer 'dangerous' In other words, it's not the grind itself - it's the lack of risk. If gathering your materials involved a real risk of dying it would become a challenge rather than a grind. Guardian structures are a case in point - a few vulnerable sentinels are the only defence. Where are the booby-traps and the advanced technologies which make these places a death trap for all but the extremely wary?
 
This would be removing all the fun from the game, and leaving you with nothing but ships you didn't work for and didn't design and don't know how to use.

Y'know, the start of the game, working your way toward goals again, is really fun. I restart my alt CMDR often, just to experience it again. Why remove that? It's the best part.

So that's a no, from me.
 
This would be removing all the fun from the game, and leaving you with nothing but ships you didn't work for and didn't design and don't know how to use.

Y'know, the start of the game, working your way toward goals again, is really fun. I restart my alt CMDR often, just to experience it again. Why remove that? It's the best part.

So that's a no, from me.

The game already has you with ships you didn't work for and don't know how to use. You can earn millions upon millions of credits in no time at all compared to how things used to be.

Before even thinking about how my suggestions would impact the game you can get an Anaconda in a couple of days, and relog for mats to engineer the thing within a couple more.

All I actually suggest changing is simplifying the sheer amount of engineer materials there are, reducing some of the back and forth when it comes to unlocking engineering, and bringing the guardian weapon unlocks in line with the module unlocks.
 
I would highly appreciate to have engineering unlocks put behind a series of missions/quests of a mixed variety and in the best of all cases even provising a bit of story and leave out the grinding unlock.

I would also like to see normal materials available to buy with credits and leave only the rare stuff to grinding or better special missions (that are only available from time to time).
Rare materials could be sellable but not buyable. I'm looking here in the direction of alien technology, prototypes and stuff that should be rare in the world of Elite instead ofthings like power conductors. Same should count for synth materials too. Would also help new players to better understand what's going on (why can't i buy iron?). In that regard I wouldn't mind to reduce the payment output.

Balancing is just out of the window. But personally that doesn't other me because there is still actual skill involved when it comes to combat and even normal flying stuff requires some knowledge at least that helps to put "veterans" above newbies.

I'm more interested in consistency and believability of the stuff offered than balancing. I think that alone would make Elite for new players more accessable because they wouldn't need to ignore common sense to understand the ingame logic.
 
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