Odyssey's Biggest Weakness: It lacks depth

My hypothesis that ED computers are utter garbage that would embarrassed by a C=64 on a regular basis grows with every day...
one doesn't even have to target people on the ground - just drop an area effect like napalm in the vietnam war - no one targeted anything with that.
 
Yeah same here, it's quality feedback on the stuff we've been exposed so far and I'm sharing similar concerns, but am keeping those to myself for now as I want to hold off with any final judgement until I see the rest of the content and how that interacts with the base game.

The other potential mitigating factor is that the points highlighted in the OP only become a problem if you're playing Elite solely for the progression curve, and I don't think that'll work well at all for us billionaire players.

I'm likely going to dip into the mission game only now and then for variety to the rest of the gameplay, most of which these days don't involve the mission board unless I need easy credits or mats.

A lot hinges on the exploration bit that we haven't seen yet, although I have to admit I'm trying to temper my expectations based on the existing state of exploration in the game.
I will admit my own potential bias here on the progression curve. In Elite I typically don't gun for progression/accumulation, but since the Phase 1 content is limited, I may very well be reaching a point where I'm sorta unconsciously attempting to master things just for the sake of it, since I'm awaiting more stuff to do in following phases.

That being said though, those who seek progression are a very large chunk of the community from what I can tell, so even though I'd like to avoid that bias myself, it's still a viewpoint that matters. Even if it won't bother me as much on full release, there's hundreds of thousands of players out there that it will bother. Besides, what often separates the decent games from the great games is the opportunity for mastery and progression. That being said, I think the majority of my points, especially in relation to Environment vs Environment (or the lack thereof) and the overbearing linearity of many missions isn't a progression issue, but rather a fundamental one that will strike anyone who immerses into the footfall content that we've been provided.
This is the biggest strength of the update imho.
It's still the best spaceship flying game out there, but it gets a new dimension by making you able to "dip into foot gameplay" now and then.
I pretty much hope when flying your own ship it will blend in a lot better then now with Apex.
I'm pretty happy about the update, it's better then I thought it would be, but still it has flaws, and I hope many of the flaws will be corrected to make it even better.
Absolutely. I've actually been heralding it as a huge improvement overall, and do hold hope for it. I think it'll add significantly to Elite as a package, and it's far from a bad start I'd say. I'd even go so far as to say that Odyssey's Alpha has been gathering a lot of undeserved flak, or frivilous criticism from a bunch of people who have been unduly treating the Alpha as some kind of Steam Early Access thing. But being able to focus attention on the core modules and the ground content in Phase 1 has let a lot of weaknesses in that core come to light, and I am genuinely concerned they may not be properly addressed due to the tight release window. But hey, better to voice my concerns than to just cross my fingers and make a wish eh.
 
OP imo to sum up missions in this game one could simply say:
"All missions in this game are of fetch or bring nature."
Either you go somewhere to pick something up, even if that is just a kill-token,
or you bring something with you, as seen in powering up the base.
Horrible missions with no evolution, no dynamic aspect. -> Meaningless gameplay -> grind

Then have a look at NPCs, do they evolve? No. Their HP increase and the damage they inflict is upped or their numbers grow.
There are no changing tactics, no communication where they coordinate. They just blindly stumble towards you, with the inability to use their jumpjets. -> unengaging

As a M&K user i am really appaled by the forced aim assist this game has. If you aim near an NPC your crosshair starts to drift towards the hitbox,
use the cutting tool and your crosshair is glued to the rim of the box cover. It is a covered up progress bar that has nothing to do with FPS experience.

Movement is floaty, with no momentum und no acceleration, it just feels wrong. The run animation is the worst, and i played some very old games that even got that right.

Reading that you can't even smartly use the turrets for your legitimate defence is even worse, we already have space NPCs engage based on faction relations...

The only choice so far i have seen this standalone detached mess gives you, is whether you would like to hack a permit locked door, or to overload it via brute force.
OK, you could sneak past enemies too, i guess that qualifies as a choice, if the detection range works like designed...

Again we have a barren, utterly basic foundation that will be left to rot.
So what does Odyssey add? A different flavour of grind, a different point of view, that is it.
 
Last edited:
one doesn't even have to target people on the ground - just drop an area effect like napalm in the vietnam war - no one targeted anything with that.
Indeed. Hell, you could saturate an area with fire from a WW2-era battleship - Can't spot an individual enemy? Doesn't matter, a flight of HE shells will smash the entire CEP area flat. Bonus: you can call down more death from above in about 25-35s, depending on who's shooting.

Once we're in phase4/5 (whichever one gives us our main CMDRs), I'll be smashing NPC scavengers flat with my size-3 cannons. Heh.

we already have space NPCs engage based on faction relations...

Sometimes they even engage for no reason - SpecOps Alpha and Gamma had a fight with each other twice last night... Twice! .. during the CG. Heh.
 
Oh yeah, I can see it already. It's going to be Horizons but much more dramatic in that sense at this rate. It'll be ironic when the best way to go about "Repair and restore" missions will be to rain hell upon the base you're meant to fix before you even land.


I'm very much aware of this, but I'm also conscious of the fact that the content isn't that interconnected. This isn't EVE Online. What we have now is a limited envelope of content, but it represents the core of what we're getting. The Phase 2 introduction of ships, frontline solutions, 3 more guns, faction conflict and the combat suit won't remedy the glaring issues that I listed above. IF you read the content of the post, or even the sub-headers, you'd realize these are core and independent issues that won't get fixed through the introduction of ships, exploration, or combat suits. I wouldn't have written this if I believed Phase 2-4 stood to fix these issues.

Like I said, I'm not complaining about bugs, or "FDev give me more to do I can't believe this alpha isn't full content from day 1". I'm voicing my concerns about the core content and core modules that they've put forward.


I'll be honest, I can't really accept this. I'm not looking for an FPS. But I am looking for a continuation of the creative open-endedness and opportunity for roleplay that Elite has offered for years. In this, at least in its core modules (on-foot settlement interaction), I believe Odyssey is falling dangerously short. I also expect more from Odyssey than we got from Horizons, as Horizons was pumped out in what, a year after release? Odyssey has been in development since early 2018. This is meant to be an expansive addition to the space simulator. Not just a sideshow to ignore as you fly around space after getting bored of it quickly. I expect more than that in the end.
You are forgetting that you are trapped in one system and we have no idea how it will work when other systems are in. You are also forgetting that you will be able to get missions from settlements instead of just the stations. This could make a settlement your base of operations. All of this can add depth.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
I actually quite like Odyssey, and find it full of qualities. But that's not the topic of the post, and it wouldn't fit to go on with a list of praise when I'm trying to deliver points to improve. Furthermore, even if someone doesn't like Odyssey, what of it? There's honestly nothing wrong with someone not liking a video game.

The lack of depth discussed in my post is in relation to core settlement-side activities and interaction that becomes apparent once the player reaches a certain level of experience and finesse with those mechanics. This isnt a "I don't like Odyssey" post.

The "lack of depth" you discuss in the OP is not really such imo. Your post seems rather a list of dislikes for certain features or the lack of certain features, which is fair enough but far from a depth topic. Some of those are completely subjective, arbitrary, and in some cases even misunderstood.

Let´s go one by one on your 4 topics/examples:

You need to reboot the reactor and put out the fires, but the glow of flashlights all over alert you that it won't be easy. Sneaking in, you notice a couple powered-off sentry turrets. Great! If you can get the power back on, surely they'll come to life and mow down the bandit invasion?

This is an example of "I dont like this" statements I mentioned. Why should they? Why do you assume turrets coming back to live after the settlement has been damaged and powered down for god knows how long automatically know who is friendly and who is a foe? Also, in phase 1 we have barely seen turrets in action, wait a bit and see how thinghs work out in the next phases when combined arms comes into play.

So... what if we try flushing out the building by turning off the atmosphere! Cut open the emergency atmosphere control access on the roof and turn it off. Surely the staff will come running out to the next building and the guards will come looking for the controls now, right? Nope.
They actually do, see these comment testimonials from other players:

"I recall some talking about shutting down stuff on the roof, so I tried that instead. It alerted the guards."
"You can also trick the enemy. You can throw a grenade far away and they will go to the explosion. You can cut a panel and depressurize a building and they go to that building, not straight to you, when the alarm goes off. They search for you."


I have also experienced the NPC closing in to inspect atmosphere venting events, much like they do with grenade explosions. Civilians NPC do not need to run out in panic since they also carry suits and helmets.

There are no attachments to toy around with beyond engineering. There are no suit modules you can tinker with to make an optimal build for what you do.
You are jumping to conclusions with very, very partial information on existing load outs in Phase 1. We do not really know yet how all the different gear we can use in suits and add on to suits will be acquired, equiped or upgraded. All those will be the equivalents to ship modules and weapons. No distinction there with current ship gameplay structure in its principle, although probably to a much smaller scale and volume.

With that being said, Odyssey is so obsessed with making you fight, that a large amount of even peaceful missions are stacked so high with enemies to fight, that they typically become combat missions anyhow if an enemy shines their flashlight in your general direction
This is another of those "I dont like" statements. Pretty much all existing missions with the exception of the explicit Combat category ones can be done without firing a single shot. Performing illegal actions and avoiding conflict is obviously part of the skill based gameplay in the game already.
 
Last edited:
Better to have random police confusion and brutality than completely oblivious AI.
Not disagreeing there. Still, the whole thing needs an overhaul..

Actually, given how much needs an overhaul, perhaps it's time for:

C:
while(1) { puts("the whole needs an overhaul.."); }


C:
ohnoes: puts("the whole needs an overhaul.."); goto ohnoes;
 
Not disagreeing there. Still, the whole thing needs an overhaul..

Actually, given how much needs an overhaul, perhaps it's time for:

C:
while(1) { puts("the whole needs an overhaul.."); }


C:
ohnoes: puts("the whole needs an overhaul.."); goto ohnoes;

Well at least the name of the "season" is fitting, it quite is an Odyssey of a game.
 
Let's be clear. "I don't like this because of these specific points..." is a very credible and acceptable piece of feedback.

What I especially don't like is an attempt to suppress other's opinions because you don't like them. Everyone is here because they have something to say, hopefully to improve the game whilst we have the chance to provide feedback. Whilst I don't always agree with the comments, I think it's a valuable exercise. It would be worse if people just left the game without saying anything because they were disenchanted.
 
TLDR; it feels horrifically linear, and after you dig for ten or fifteen hours, you suddenly hit the floor of what Odyssey's existing content has to offer you in terms of replayability. And that's a huge problem.
Its definitely missing quite a few things to keep it engaging, but I think there is one in particular people are subconsciously reacting negatively to more important than 'gamifying' it better. Its missing soul. The weird hegemony of culture. Everything, outside of the empire's cool 80's jackets and Gigery ships, is exactly the same. There's no recognizable, in game variation at all in architecture or culture in the base game and it seems Odyssey will inherit that. I had hoped that Odyssey would give us different human biomes to explore, as well as alien ones. I saw a post about not forgetting to include dark skinned people, but thats only whats on the surface. Where is the actual diversity in culture that every real explorer yearns to experience? Why do factions, regardless of whether they're communists, autocracies or democracies all treat me exactly the same, pay exactly the same and want the same things?

I think it would really make the game to be able to go get some of those locusts fresh from a street food vendor in the system they come from in a colorful station market somewhere.
 
Let's be clear. "I don't like this because of these specific points..." is a very credible and acceptable piece of feedback.

What I especially don't like is an attempt to suppress other's opinions because you don't like them. Everyone is here because they have something to say, hopefully to improve the game whilst we have the chance to provide feedback. Whilst I don't always agree with the comments, I think it's a valuable exercise. It would be worse if people just left the game without saying anything because they were disenchanted.
This, we're not here just to report on the bugs alone. If you don't like something about the alpha you should say it now, because it's less likely going to change once Odyssey is out the door unless it is a issue which they acknowledge. To each their own I guess. Interested in seeing what phase 2 will change.
 
Im enjoying it, there's plenty of rough edges and a few things I might have done differently but Im encouraged by what Ive seen so far. I do hope that NPC's get a little more variety in their patrol routes, just to keep players on their toes as I suspect that might help to stop the missions being too predictable.

As I always say, Elite is a smorgasboard of things to do, none of which are going to approach the level of a game where there was just that one thing to do. It's not going to be a full on flight simulator, it's not going to be a top end strategy game, it's not going to be a quality top draw FPS. Companies can spend the same dev time as Elite making just one of these, yet some people think Elite should be as good in all of them.....

The game is putting all those things together into one bundle and trying to make them work as a whole. That's not to say things can't be better, as they surely can, and it's not to say some things aren't done anywhere near as well as they could be - but once you accept what Elite is and what it isn't - then you can crack on with playing it rather than wishing it was something else - a 'something else' nobody else has ever pulled off, and likely won't do for a long, long time. Im just glad it exists at all :)
 
Lacks depth? We barely saw a small portion in phase 1.

This kind of feedback doesn't really work at this point in the alpha, but you cant expect players not to post it. Bit of a catch 22.

The irony (and frankly how it escaped the bean counters) is that ED can be vastly improved simply by making what we have now just work as it should,
Couldn't agree more. A significant amount of player noise would be eliminated if such refinements to existing mechanics were on the cards.

Perhaps in the next version.
 
This kind of feedback doesn't really work at this point in the alpha, but you cant expect players not to post it. Bit of a catch 22.
Yeah, sure, but this is not feedback about Odyssey but rather the limited alpha phase 1..The lack of depth is kind of obvious when you are limited just to single system and few items that can be bought or obtained and few things that you can actually do.
 
I only have a few questions. In Odyssey, who is fool enough to have tried to go on a mission without a weapon ? Who goes on a mission without their best available weapons ? What makes a good suit ?

Now, what is your answer in Horizon (replacing the suit with the ship, of course) ?
 
Odyssey is obsessed with making you fight, or at least commit crime

This one barely needs explanation I'm sure. Nearly every mission you get sent on is an illegal action, including the legal missions. Break in here. Kill people here. Steal this here. Do some fighting here. That being said, I'm aware that not all mission types are out yet. With that being said, Odyssey is so obsessed with making you fight, that a large amount of even peaceful missions are stacked so high with enemies to fight, that they typically become combat missions anyhow if an enemy shines their flashlight in your general direction. 75% of the time, even on missions like reactor reactivations at Threat Level 0, I end up becoming Rambo, gunning down hordes of enemies on my way to the escape shuttle.

Sure, it's Elite Dangerous, not Elite Snuggly, and there ought to be challenge just as there is in the base game. But on the other side of the coin, I'm sick of mowing down 20 bandits single-handedly when I'm just trying to be a repairman, and I'm tired of hopping and sprinting off into the frozen wastes as a Goliath drone chases me down because I made the mistake of jumping three seconds before a guard decided that he wanted to search me while im 30 feet in the air. Of course, like I mentioned, in the base game there's hostile challenge put against you even on the simplest of missions, but it is never overwhelming odds, and it isn't nearly as common. Odyssey just feels obsessed with making you fight. It feels obsessed with becoming an FPS over an adventure game. I never go into a mission in Odyssey expecting to roleplay or to conduct myself peacefully. I always go in expecting to fight for my life or flee. And that, above all else, is immensely disappointing.

As a contrast to that, the current live game is obsessed with making you be a good guy only. And I actually don't think that changes much in Odyssey.

When I saw the nature of many of the missions was antagonistic in nature, I thought "Great, FD is finally actually giving bad guy content some sorely-needed attention". Then when I looked closer at how FD deal with Hostile Rep on legs as well, I realised it was the same trashy Elite: Best Friends outcome.
 
Top Bottom