Make it hard

The post below is fairly representative of the minority view that calls for 'tougher NPC' solely as, in order to be part of the PvP contingent, they have to build massively overpowered ships in order to on the same level as the rest of the group.

For any player not in the least interested in participating in PvP an average PvE build (which can actually carry a little cargo and be able to jump more than a couple of LY) might find plenty of 'challenge' in the current NPC behaviour.
Just to toot my own horn, I came up with the solution of removing stackable modules, so no more shield boosters, armor plates, fighter hangars, shield banks etc stacking. Only cargo space obviously. IMHO that would allow more people to play open as the notorious murder boats would be far less impervious to attacks and level the playing field somewhat, while also returning a modicum of challenging content as your engineered ships are still strong but no longer godlike. Personally i would consider playing open more if this were the case, if I'd feel I'd have something of a fighting chance I would enjoy the pucker-factor of gankers.

Besides, as i understand ED uses instancing with a max of 32 commanders per instance? Well the galaxy is huge, ergo this game really doesnt cater well to pvp in those regards.
 
Some people enjoy a challenge...
Some people say they enjoy a challenge but don't do anything to get that challenge. They sit there complaining that they can kill anything easily in their death machines. And as has been noted, like with many games, the biggest challenge can be found in the form of PvP.

Its like playing Command and Comquer on easy mode and complaining that its too easy.
 
Just to toot my own horn, I came up with the solution of removing stackable modules, so no more shield boosters, armor plates, fighter hangars, shield banks etc stacking. Only cargo space obviously. IMHO that would allow more people to play open as the notorious murder boats would be far less impervious to attacks and level the playing field somewhat, while also returning a modicum of challenging content as your engineered ships are still strong but no longer godlike. Personally i would consider playing open more if this were the case, if I'd feel I'd have something of a fighting chance I would enjoy the pucker-factor of gankers.

Besides, as i understand ED uses instancing with a max of 32 commanders per instance? Well the galaxy is huge, ergo this game really doesnt cater well to pvp in those regards.
Good suggestion. Perhaps engineering shouldn't be able to stack either. ie: if you apply thermal resistance to your shield and a shield booster, then it only takes the highest value, it doesn't add them.

PS: You can't stack fighter hangars. Only SRV bays.
 
Some people say they enjoy a challenge but don't do anything to get that challenge. They sit there complaining that they can kill anything easily in their death machines. And as has been noted, like with many games, the biggest challenge can be found in the form of PvP.

Its like playing Command and Comquer on easy mode and complaining that its too easy.
The roads are too easy, make them harder!

 
For any player not in the least interested in participating in PvP an average PvE build (which can actually carry a little cargo and be able to jump more than a couple of LY) might find plenty of 'challenge' in the current NPC behaviour.
This ship holds 512 tons of cargo and can jump ~30ly:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AadDU6fMo2s


It can be interdicted a half dozen times by elite FDLs, corvette, anaconda, and T-10 NPCs, submit to every single interdiction, destroy every NPC interdictor, and make it to it's mission destination where station security cannot ever find the 200 meter long smuggler before it successfully docks with trivial damage, in time to get the bonus.

Some people say they enjoy a challenge but don't do anything to get that challenge. They sit there complaining that they can kill anything easily in their death machines. And as has been noted, like with many games, the biggest challenge can be found in the form of PvP.

Its like playing Command and Comquer on easy mode and complaining that its too easy.
The problem is having to go out of my way to find challenges when I should have to go out of my way to overcome them.

For me to be challenged as a player, I have to play a far more reckless character than I enjoy playing. Deliberately making mistakes, constantly passing up opportunities, and otherwise selecting less than the best option from my CMDR's perspective, are all problems, not solutions.
 
The problem is having to go out of my way to find challenges when I should have to go out of my way to overcome them.

For me to be challenged as a player, I have to play a far more reckless character than I enjoy playing. Deliberately making mistakes, constantly passing up opportunities, and otherwise selecting less than the best option from my CMDR's perspective, are all problems, not solutions.
You just described pretty accurately exactly how I play ;)

When I get on top of things I push harder until I start making mistakes again. If all I did was tend to my home system I'd be bored.
 
I find that if you announce to the room/the house/the universe (basically say it out loud), "I'm going to play my game for a while and I would appreciate not being disturbed", then the game becomes very difficult to play because suddenly EVERYONE on the planet needs your urgent attention right now.
 
Anyone remember some time back when the npc's were actually dangerous, and subsequently got nerfed? Would like to see them back and think they would fit the game nicely now.
Tough enough for me at the moment, I'm a dreadful combat pilot and also prefer to not wander around in a combat specialised build all the time. A result of this being most of my builds are geared towards more multi-role play with a good dose of Sir Robin capability.
 
Once you hit deadly or elite combat ranks, it does need to ramp up.
Even interdictions by multiple NPCs would be nice

Deadly two NPCs
Elite three NPCs

Maybe 1 meaty ship with 2 smaller wing mates

Leave lower ranks as they are
 
Once you hit deadly or elite combat ranks, it does need to ramp up.
Even interdictions by multiple NPCs would be nice

Deadly two NPCs
Elite three NPCs

Maybe 1 meaty ship with 2 smaller wing mates

Leave lower ranks as they are
And this is another reason I try to avoid combat, I don't want the game to say "Hey, this chaps is Elite, better send a fleet of Anacondas after him".
If I wanted a fight sure*, but if I'd like to be quietly doing some trading or mining I don't really want to be hunted down by a pack of rabid killers every step of the way.
How about contextually appropriate combat response. I go somewhere dangerous to do something dangerous then sure, otherwise not so much. Arguably Elite rank, for instance, should have most people giving you a wide berth just in case you really do know what you are doing and are in a bad mood.

* Maybe, did I mention the rubbish combat pilot and builds thing?
 
Once you hit deadly or elite combat ranks, it does need to ramp up.
Even interdictions by multiple NPCs would be nice

Deadly two NPCs
Elite three NPCs

Maybe 1 meaty ship with 2 smaller wing mates

Leave lower ranks as they are
Well, I'm Elite, but that doesn't mean I'm good at combat - I just play a lot. Generally I submit to pirates and collect materials, but apart from that I don't seek combat. I wouldn't want routinely-met NPCs to be much more of a threat.
 
Well, I'm Elite, but that doesn't mean I'm good at combat - I just play a lot. Generally I submit to pirates and collect materials, but apart from that I don't seek combat. I wouldn't want routinely-met NPCs to be much more of a threat.
It should be situational- in an anarchy system it should be hard at Elite ranks in general travel as it should be in missions.

The problem is then what are ranks for? Its one indicator of your progress in game. Make getting Elite harder (thus tuning out the hard NPCs) perhaps.
 
The problem is having to go out of my way to find challenges when I should have to go out of my way to overcome them.
If you are talking about PvE, then not really. Just don't fly a death machine.

If you are talking about PvP, that's because the play area isn't conductive to encountering other players unless you go to certain places.

But there again, anyone playing ED for PvP is somewhat strange, as there are a bazillion other games out there that provide a much better PvP experience.
 
Boy oh boy, just fly around Jameson Memorial in SC for a couple of minutes and you'll see what danger is.
Or, choose a couple, or why not more than 3 wing missions to kill high leveled terrorists, (or is it pirate lords) in the same system. Once you drop out, they'll follow you, drop out of SC and when they are all lined up, agro them all. It is a blast having like 3 or 4 fully engineered FDL's, with their escorts blasting you.
😂😂 I end up fleeing 1 out of 3 or even 2.
 
If you are talking about PvE, then not really. Just don't fly a death machine.
Even then its not exactly difficult (not to mention why unlock everything if there is no challenge to meet that effort).

I don't really get the resistance to adding ultra hard PvE missions above what we have now. Its blind luck stacking to get something sweat inducing, while NPCs work to simplistic rules that are easily identified making them predictable.
 
I don't really get the resistance to adding ultra hard PvE missions above what we have now.
Is there such resistance?
To me this looks like a good idea.

But I resist the idea that all encounters should scale with (combat) rank. That would be just plain stupid and lazy approach.
 
Is there such resistance?
To me this looks like a good idea.

But I resist the idea that all encounters should scale with (combat) rank. That would be just plain stupid and lazy approach.
It certainly feels like it, which is odd. Its strange because FD almost got it right and then went in another direction.

Scaling to rank is an odd one, because it then makes things a bit forced. Elite has to mean something, but it can't be a one way thing (since on its own Elite rank is meaningless). If its used as a key to unlock harder missions then I say make stuff difficult.

The other problem then becomes to get hard to need engineering in the NPC- so the mission board would have to scale to that, or grade non engineering 'hard' at say 3 or 4, and rock hard G5 engineered scary missions at say, 8 or 9.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
The problem is then what are ranks for? Its one indicator of your progress in game. Make getting Elite harder (thus tuning out the hard NPCs) perhaps.
All of the Elite ranks follow a one way path where actions only ever increase the rank (no matter by how little) - with trade being able to be achieved very, very quickly now. With that in mind, both trade and exploration ranks are more a measure of activity rather than skill. Similarly, to an extent, so is combat rank - as every kill apparently increases it (remembering that kills too many ranks below the CMDR's current rank used to count for nothing) - so it's not necessaryly a measure of skill either.
 
All of the Elite ranks follow a one way path where actions only ever increase the rank (no matter by how little) - with trade being able to be achieved very, very quickly now. With that in mind, both trade and exploration ranks are more a measure of activity rather than skill. Similarly, to an extent, so is combat rank - as every kill apparently increases it (remembering that kills too many ranks below the CMDR's current rank used to count for nothing) - so it's not necessaryly a measure of skill either.
True- it might be an idea that you lose rank (or standing) by killing weak ships to keep you seeking harder targets (if desired).
 
Even then its not exactly difficult (not to mention why unlock everything if there is no challenge to meet that effort).

I don't really get the resistance to adding ultra hard PvE missions above what we have now. Its blind luck stacking to get something sweat inducing, while NPCs work to simplistic rules that are easily identified making them predictable.
Well, that's already well in the realm of it depending on the person. Its hard to die to anything when flying a death machine, no matter your skill level. I'm pretty sure if i was flying an unengineered ship i'd have a much harder time.

By the way, i have no problem with FD adding ultra hard PvE missions for higher rewards. I just doubt they will be effective. Firstly FD will likely just make them bullet sponges, resulting in increditly protracted fights. Secondly, people will as usual find a method that works against the AI and then it becomes easy, and people then "farm" those missions the same as they grind out mining for LTDs, at least those that can handle them. In short, they would just become another grind, and then those people, probably the same people who are here right now complaining about how easy things are, will say FD should give even harder missions.
 
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