Looking for New HOTAS advice

If you have a soldering iron, the 16000m can be easily fixed..

The virpril looks lovely but to be honest its beyond the normal gamers budget. By the time you add all the bits up it costs a fortune.

My 16000m and ch pro has lasted 6 years and many thousands of hours in elite. And cost less than 200 quid
I beg of You please pm me with details how to fix the damn thing while I wait for new 1 to arrive I am going insane!!!

o7
 
I was wandering if our fantastic and knowledgable comunity would assist me on that 1. I was using a T1600m and throttle from thrustmaster for nearly 5 years now, super happy with it APPART of yaw axis on the stick which is a common issue with it. Every few days I have to dissasemble it otherwise I get ghost input from that axis.

So I am currently looking into few options and due to pandemic and all that stocks are very limited, so I have time to get some opinions.

Current options I am looking at are:

X52 pro for circa £150
X56 for £220
Thrustmaster Warthog Hotas for £350

Money is not an issue but don't like to overpay for garbage if lower priced options work same or better.

Any input is highly appreciated. Just to add, I have the game since 2015 i think and with 2 years brake(due to that stupid yaw issue with the stick) I am sitting at over 1000hrs and also playing flight sims from time to time so I am looking for something that will withstand some heavy dogfighting :)

o7

Edit: I read alot before posting and I am only looking for owners of those sticks opinions first hand so please if You are about to write something that I can find on google already, don't bother
I've used the T16000 (and throttle) extensively. I've had the yaw issue on three successive sticks. Here's a link to the fix I used - it worked on all three sticks (and all three sticks are going on their 5th year of useful life) T16000 yaw fixed. That said, I decided to get a VKB Gunfighter Mk.III 'Space Combat Edition' Flight Stick about three months ago. There's no comparison. I still use the T16000 throttle with it. I also bought a Logitech X52 pro Hotas about a month ago (got tired of the kids fighting over the T16000 Hotas). Its not a bad stick. Better than the T16000.

T16000 HOTAS is a great entry-point. Fix the Yaw and its a solid HOTAS. Only two complaints are it feels like a toy, and there aren't enough buttons on the stick (and the buttons on the base aren't very ergonomic).

Logitech X52 pro Hotax feels a little better, but still a toy. The Stick has better button layout than the T16000, but the T16000 Throttle works better for Elite Dangerous than the X52 Pro Throttle.

The Gunfighter is straight-up better. Feels solid, responsive and its got a good number of buttons. Pairs well with the T16000 FCS (throttle) until VKB releases their own.
 
I had 2 x-52's and one X-56 in 3 years time. The X-56 is very nice, but it is a throwaway stick. Logitech hasn't done much to improve it.
If you want Z-axis, and if money is no issue, then I recommend having a look at Virpil. A Virpil HOTAS will cost you over 800 euros though. It is insane.
Also ordering from Virpis is a pain in the neck, although they have improved somewhat, but you can only pre order with a credit card.

But... when you buy the Saitek Logitech HOTAS you will pay the same in 4 years time and you will experience a lot of stress because of the defects you will encounter.
And the Virpil kit just FEELS night and day more solid, more ergonomic, just...better.
 
I've used the T16000 (and throttle) extensively. I've had the yaw issue on three successive sticks. Here's a link to the fix I used - it worked on all three sticks (and all three sticks are going on their 5th year of useful life) T16000 yaw fixed. That said, I decided to get a VKB Gunfighter Mk.III 'Space Combat Edition' Flight Stick about three months ago. There's no comparison. I still use the T16000 throttle with it. I also bought a Logitech X52 pro Hotas about a month ago (got tired of the kids fighting over the T16000 Hotas). Its not a bad stick. Better than the T16000.

T16000 HOTAS is a great entry-point. Fix the Yaw and its a solid HOTAS. Only two complaints are it feels like a toy, and there aren't enough buttons on the stick (and the buttons on the base aren't very ergonomic).

Logitech X52 pro Hotax feels a little better, but still a toy. The Stick has better button layout than the T16000, but the T16000 Throttle works better for Elite Dangerous than the X52 Pro Throttle.

The Gunfighter is straight-up better. Feels solid, responsive and its got a good number of buttons. Pairs well with the T16000 FCS (throttle) until VKB releases their own.
Thanks, I used that method but the issue keeps comming back :/
 
The Logitech version comes with a clip that raises the wrist rest by 5mm or so. The secondary fire felt awkward to me before I attached the clip, but it's fine with it. Or have you already tried that?
Yes... I'm tempted to find someone who can 3D scan it, then modify the scan to add another 12mm at the front 2/3 to push my dinky little hand up while leaving the pinky button easily reached, then 3D print a replacement :)
 
So the main problem I had with the t16000m is the main fire switch. It started playing up. A careful disassemble, a 50 p switch, a soldering iron and it was fixed..
 
Greetings,

So it's now the X-56 thread? OK. More info from my world. Your opinions may vary.

Owning all three versions the X-55 Yellow joystick yaw spring broke. I couldn't find a part replacement but no matter as the joystick hats were getting pretty loose/sloppy after three years using/abusing it. Still the manufacture could have been nice to offer parts for sale.

The X-56 Blue had throttle 'ghosting' problems (controls activated without player input) but it turned out to be insufficient power from the PC USB ports. A powered USB hub resolves this for all three. Basic powered hubs are cheap and given the cost of this HOTAS why didn't the manufacturer include one? Yaw centering on the joystick was also a little off.

The X-56 Grey was very solid and precise but after break-in even the yaw centering was still off. There was a reset calibration app that helped. This has been an issue with all three. Purchasing one this week maybe the OP can report back per new and break-in after awhile to see how yaw centering is working.

Big joystick medium size hand. To reach the top controls on the joystick one has to slide their hand up a little. Button B (Windows 3) for target ahead the forefinger hits it no problem. The top right witch hat (7-10) I use for look around and the button A (2) highest threat requires moving the hand up. There is a base clip which adds about 0.7 CM height but for me 2.5 CM is correct. More height and the lower hats become a problem being too low.

Solution? Add the correct height per a nice piece of dense quality soft rubber/foam and shape it with an X-Acto knife to fit perfectly on the palm base and look good! I found it in the packaging of some product I bought and cannot remember what it was. Long fingers per a piano player? Maybe not a problem. Small hands female? Maybe 3 CM would be better.

Another fact. X-56 Blue and Gray joysticks and bases are interchangeable. Could help if concerned about a controller problem looking for different results. ED won't notice the difference.

Being nuts about ED I also purchased the Warthog, T.16000M. TFRP rudder pedals and T.Flight HOTAS 4 (for the PS4 Pro} trying them all out. I could sell a few. With my personal bias I go with the X-56 Gray as it is so very connected to the bindings in ED. Add in that analog tuumbstick on the joystick thumb fire button (there is another one on the throttle) I don't think that any other HOTAS currently has. I could be wrong with the European versions. Other than the analog thumbstick any other HOTAS joystick could easily replace the X-56 version. But after using that thumbstick I'm going to miss it. Bad evil manufacturers!

Meanwhile Thrustmaster has added two more joysticks which attaches to a Warthog base or purchase another one going for an F/A 18 or an F-16C realism. Given their design they still do not have yaw requiring pedals. You decide if t fits your ED requirements.

The bottom line is that any current HOTAS has pros and cons. Just like any ED player asking for the best Anaconda build. There are many answers but only one per that player as ED has so many different ways to play it. Given experience playing ED they won't have to ask.

Meanwhile here is my setup. It is all green awaiting to fly a Thargoid. Right. Thargoids in past Elite games like green. Playing ED for TOO many hours my body likes to move around. Rudder pedals and dedicated flight controls on a chair limits my options. Also note the mouse on the left indicating that I am left handed. Sure, it took a few hours flying a right handed joystick but my brain figured it out...so will yours!

Regards

ed_qhd.jpg
 
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Did You have the ghost input issue from buttons I read and hear alot about?
I have an X56 since 1 and half year other than some dead zone adjustment on yaw, is working fine. Ghosting come from power issue. I use an externally powered USB 3.0 hub and got rid of any issue
 
Greetings,

So it's now the X-56 thread? OK. More info from my world. Your opinions may vary.

Owning all three versions the X-55 Yellow joystick yaw spring broke. I couldn't find a part replacement but no matter as the joystick hats were getting pretty loose/sloppy after three years using/abusing it. Still the manufacture could have been nice to offer parts for sale.

The X-56 Blue had throttle 'ghosting' problems (controls activated without player input) but it turned out to be insufficient power from the PC USB ports. A powered USB hub resolves this for all three. Basic powered hubs are cheap and given the cost of this HOTAS why didn't the manufacturer include one? Yaw centering on the joystick was also a little off.

The X-56 Grey was very solid and precise but after break-in even the yaw centering was still off. There was a reset calibration app that helped. This has been an issue with all three. Purchasing one this week maybe the OP can report back per new and break-in after awhile to see how yaw centering is working.

Big joystick medium size hand. To reach the top controls on the joystick one has to slide their hand up a little. Button B (Windows 3) for target ahead the forefinger hits it no problem. The top right witch hat (7-10) I use for look around and the button A (2) highest threat requires moving the hand up. There is a base clip which adds about 0.7 CM height but for me 2.5 CM is correct. More height and the lower hats become a problem being too low.

Solution? Add the correct height per a nice piece of dense quality soft rubber/foam and shape it with an X-Acto knife to fit perfectly on the palm base and look good! I found it in the packaging of some product I bought and cannot remember what it was. Long fingers per a piano player? Maybe not a problem. Small hands female? Maybe 3 CM would be better.

Another fact. X-56 Blue and Gray joysticks and bases are interchangeable. Could help if concerned about a controller problem looking for different results. ED won't notice the difference.

Being nuts about ED I also purchased the Warthog, T.16000M. TFRP rudder pedals and T.Flight HOTAS 4 (for the PS4 Pro} trying them all out. I could sell a few. With my personal bias I go with the X-56 Gray as it is so very connected to the bindings in ED. Add in that analog tuumbstick on the joystick thumb fire button (there is another one on the throttle) I don't think that any other HOTAS currently has. I could be wrong with the European versions. Other than the analog thumbstick any other HOTAS joystick could easily replace the X-56 version. But after using that thumbstick I'm going to miss it. Bad evil manufacturers!

Meanwhile Thrustmaster has added two more joysticks which attaches to a Warthog base or purchase another one going for an F/A 18 or an F-16C realism. Given their design they still do not have yaw requiring pedals. You decide if t fits your ED requirements.

The bottom line is that any current HOTAS has pros and cons. Just like any ED player asking for the best Anaconda build. There are many answers but only one per that player as ED has so many different ways to play it. Given experience playing ED they won't have to ask.

Meanwhile here is my setup. It is all green awaiting to fly a Thargoid. Right. Thargoids in past Elite games like green. Playing ED for TOO many hours my body likes to move around. Rudder pedals and dedicated flight controls on a chair limits my oprions.

Regards

1) Not even a single sticky note on monitor ? You're not a real gamer :D
2) My X-55 yaw broke , bought a broken X-55(the base of joystick was broken) and swapped sticks, all good for now :)
3) I use 2 small Bose speakers, best sound I've ever had on a PC( similar to this model https://www.bose.co.uk/en_gb/products/speakers/stereo_speakers/companion-20-multimedia-speaker-system.html)
4) Yellow yaw spring ? The one in the strick or under the stick(under is not yaw spring)
 
...I use 2 small Bose speakers, best sound I've ever had on a PC....
I have 2 large Bose speakers in my man-cave that are awesome. Here's a picture. Meanwhile playing ED I use a Corsair SP2500 2.1 channel 232 Watt system that totally takes care of ED audio. Per a Clint Eastwood movie I don't need any "stinking badges" or a 7 point surround speaker system to enjoy ED. Other opinions may vary.

Regards
DSCN0407.JPG
 
Yes... I'm tempted to find someone who can 3D scan it, then modify the scan to add another 12mm at the front 2/3 to push my dinky little hand up while leaving the pinky button easily reached, then 3D print a replacement :)
That's not a bad idea. And as I have two 3d printers, I'm going to see what I can come up with. :) It won't be 3d scanned, but recreating the clip doesn't look too hard (famous last words). It'll give me something to tinker with over the weekend, anyway!
 
Yes... I'm tempted to find someone who can 3D scan it, then modify the scan to add another 12mm at the front 2/3 to push my dinky little hand up while leaving the pinky button easily reached, then 3D print a replacement :)
If you're serious about that, get cracking yourself :p

The scanning part is easy, but tedious - you'll need a hundred or so pictures from various angles, and an NVIDIA GPU: https://blog.prusaprinters.org/photogrammetry-2-3d-scanning-simpler-better-than-ever_29393/ . I gave it a try or two, but then just bought the museum replica of the thing in question 🤷‍♂️

Next, you'll need to clean up your model - that article mentioned Meshmixer, but there are other sculpting tools around; that area is in reasonably rapid development, ISTR that even the classic technical 3D-CAD Fusion360 (which I'm usually using in the free version) now has a set of sculpting tools (but still isn't any better working with high triangle count meshes).
For the printing, once you have a model as .stl file, check your local yellow pages (or internet) - there are lots of local 3d printing services around. If you're lucky, there even will be a makerspace in your area where you can print it yourself, with the support of local enthusiasts, at the cost of the filament plus a bit for the coffee and cake.

On the other hand, given the effort involved in that, unless you can find a 3d model of your stick somewhere on the net, it would probably be easier and faster to whittle that support from balsa wood or dense foam, stick it to the stick and wrap some tennis or hockey grip tape around it (bicycle grip tape is usually thicker, that can be positive or negative).
 
If you're serious about that, get cracking yourself :p

The scanning part is easy, but tedious - you'll need a hundred or so pictures from various angles, and an NVIDIA GPU: https://blog.prusaprinters.org/photogrammetry-2-3d-scanning-simpler-better-than-ever_29393/ . I gave it a try or two, but then just bought the museum replica of the thing in question 🤷‍♂️

Next, you'll need to clean up your model - that article mentioned Meshmixer, but there are other sculpting tools around; that area is in reasonably rapid development, ISTR that even the classic technical 3D-CAD Fusion360 (which I'm usually using in the free version) now has a set of sculpting tools (but still isn't any better working with high triangle count meshes).
For the printing, once you have a model as .stl file, check your local yellow pages (or internet) - there are lots of local 3d printing services around. If you're lucky, there even will be a makerspace in your area where you can print it yourself, with the support of local enthusiasts, at the cost of the filament plus a bit for the coffee and cake.

On the other hand, given the effort involved in that, unless you can find a 3d model of your stick somewhere on the net, it would probably be easier and faster to whittle that support from balsa wood or dense foam, stick it to the stick and wrap some tennis or hockey grip tape around it (bicycle grip tape is usually thicker, that can be positive or negative).
That's not a bad idea. And as I have two 3d printers, I'm going to see what I can come up with. :) It won't be 3d scanned, but recreating the clip doesn't look too hard (famous last words). It'll give me something to tinker with over the weekend, anyway!
@Ashnac - plenty of good advice there, thank you :) I've got a 2080 Super in my PC so probably have reasonable calculating power available - I know the 10 series were great number crunchers, yet to find out with the newer generation. (Sculpting some dense foam may also be an idea) (y)
(I'm not quite too old to learn so could have a project there in the future!)

@Crank Larson - If you jump into the fun, I'd be interested in hearing how it goes... ;)
 
Just printed my first prototype to check the layout/sizing. Doesn't look too bad for a first attempt, though I suspect it'll be another ten at least before I get close to a final. I've got a fair bit of resin to use up, though, so that's not a problem. If I get a decent result, I'll upload the files somewhere (maybe thingiverse).

I've found that 3D Builder (the free app built into Windows) is actually pretty good for creating models. Pretty much any shape can be made from a cube, sphere, and cylinder - just need to work out which ones to subtract to make the more complex ones. If you can work out how to create them that way instead of scanning, you get a better end result (and one that you can potentially play around with more easily).
 
You will like the X-56 gray. The controls totally match the design of the bindings in Elite Dangerous as if it was made for the game. Other than installing drivers the provided editing software is not needed. It is also great flying airliners in X-Plane 11. The thumb fire control on the joystick is also an analog thumbstick which is great for fore/aft thrusters.

Flying the X-56 gray since it was released my issue is the yaw doesn't like to center on release st 50%. A little ED deadzone yaw takes care of this. The base of the joystick can squeak and cause jitters when moving it around but some light vaseline on the moving parts makes it very smooth and quiet. The throttle is stiff at first but setting it to the lightest resistance and a week of breaking it in makes it a light throw.

Keeping the throttle a player can later go with a VKB, Virpil or Warthog if desired. Being made of metal the Warthog is always cold. I felt like I needed a glove to use it. :)
If I didn't already have a Warthog setup, the new X-56 (grey) is what I'd be seriously looking at. Your description of the bindings would have probably pushed me into getting it. :)
 
Quick update anybody interested in getting x56 looks like they are back on amazon, mine got dispatched today and they are only £195 not like some rip offs asking in reagon of £300
 
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