ANNOUNCEMENT January Update - Beta Announcement

Given the way it works already:
  • Some bodies scan instantly with no POIs
  • Some bodies scan in 2-3 seconds with no POIs
  • Some bodies take 20-30 seconds with POIs
I would think there is the possibility of a three-stage notification. First you get a "Likely", then you get "Present" and then "24 Geological".

That would mean getting information from the running GPU process though, and I think that would be a problem. It might be possible to do it based on run-time, just as we do now, but we wouldn't know if the extra time was because of Geo sites or Bio sites -- it couldn't differentiate them.

All in all, I'd prefer the proposed system with additions to report on the number of sites on the System Map.

Having the surface generation wait until DSS makes logical sense, but it's a big change to the game-play and it's unnecessary. FD have always prioritised game-play over simulation veracity. Look at multi-crew for example; you don't have to be in the same place to join a ship. Holo-presence is the only interstellar FTL information transfer that exists in the game.

Additionally, it makes no sense that the number of POIs is only reported in the FSS. It should always have been in the System Map.
I don't think FDev is asking us how specifically they ought to realize this new function and I'm pretty sure the design is 'ready to go', only asking us for feedback about how it works and how we like it. Don't worry, they still design the game, not you. ;)

Agreed with your last point though (POIs also should be prominent in the system map). For some strange reason (meanwhile by tradition now) they always had a hard time to sync data representation whenever it was redundant and shown in different locations. As if they would have a separate team for each window section and there's a big lead wall between them. In other words: to me it often looks like they seriously need to update their inter-team communications...
 
Given the way it works already:
  • Some bodies scan instantly with no POIs
  • Some bodies scan in 2-3 seconds with no POIs
  • Some bodies take 20-30 seconds with POIs
I would think there is the possibility of a three-stage notification. First you get a "Likely", then you get "Present" and then "24 Geological".

That would mean getting information from the running GPU process though, and I think that would be a problem. It might be possible to do it based on run-time, just as we do now, but we wouldn't know if the extra time was because of Geo sites or Bio sites -- it couldn't differentiate them.

All in all, I'd prefer the proposed system with additions to report on the number of sites on the System Map.

Having the surface generation wait until DSS makes logical sense, but it's a big change to the game-play and it's unnecessary. FD have always prioritised game-play over simulation veracity. Look at multi-crew for example; you don't have to be in the same place to join a ship. Holo-presence is the only interstellar FTL information transfer that exists in the game.

Additionally, it makes no sense that the number of POIs is only reported in the FSS. It should always have been in the System Map.
Generally what’s going on with scan times is:

- Non-landables - instant response (because there’s no surface POIs currently, so there is no dependency on the planet generation system for the POI info).

- Landables without volcanism - scan time is always short and takes roughly the same time regardless of whether POIs are there and the type.

- Landables with volcanism - scan time is always long, regardless of whether there are POIs or not*. Scan time varies a fair bit but is always much longer than for non-volcanic landables. Scan time is not correlated with numbers of POIs.

*it’s rare but some landables with volcanism don’t have Geo POIs - it’s approx 0.1% to 0.01% (based on personal experience and reports from other cmdrs)

If you are seeing a long scan time, in general what that actually means is that you’re scanning a landable with volcansim. (Or that you’ve got a processing bottleneck while your GPU is dealing with the planet gen for a landable with volcanism you’ve already zoomed in on and not waited for the scan results for.

A long scan time does not definitely mean that there will be POIs.

It can be determined instantly whether there will be a long scan time, as whether a body has volcanism is info that’s returned instantly by the FSS.


On the 3 stage process, there’s not going to be any noticeable time between the 2nd and 3rd stage so the split’s a bit redundant. Could go for a 2 stage process though with likelihood first and then either ‘present yes/no’ or numbers as the 2nd stage.

Agreed on the FSS info going to the sysmap. (Been requesting/suggesting it for more than a year now! 😀)
 
I believed that the generation of procedures happened while you were in withspace between jumps, but I think I was wrong ... I really don't know how it works, but I fully trust any developer.
But in the last statements they seem somewhat lost, something that I do not understand after what they have created, and that may be due to feeling overwhelmed by so many reports of errors, which in reality are not.

About the fss. (I don't know if it matters, but I have a 970 that still works fancy)

I never believed that the time it takes to scan each planet was a mistake, I see it as logical considering the size of a planet or moon, and the amount of information, and distances of millions of kilometers.

I explain myself, when I play, I think my scanner has hidden tools that use things like spectometry, mass measurements, topography ... (and a lot of things I don't really understand,but I prefer to think this and not how I think it works, only they know it)

and finally all that information would be processed (after a few seconds) and would give me exact locations of biological, geological or volcanic places, a LOGICAL time, given the difficult task that should be for the internal processor of our on-board computer. (Imagine not only scanning the surface of our Earth, but locating small forests or whatever, even with Google Earth it would take a few seconds xD)
I am happy believing that my scanner works like this.
Also, if you are spending time just exploring, that should be normal, since it is supposed to be a quiet experience and you are likely to visit those planets just for the sake of doing so.
But now with this kind of lottery that they want to implement, I see wasted time in visiting planets that seemed to have something and finally not, resulting more extensive time than waiting a few seconds as now.
Say that currently FSS is broken, it seems a bit excessive IMO.
Ok, firstly there is a genuine issue. Perhaps it doesn't particularly effect you.

To explain.

  • If a body is non-landable the scan results return instantly.

  • If a body is landable but doesn't have volcanism, then scan results return in a few seconds.

  • If a body is landable and has volcanism, then scan results return take a lot longer to return. It can run up to nearly a minute for me personally.
Also, while a landable with volcanism is being processed, that causes a bottleneck / block in processing, and if other landable bodies are scanned while that is still going on then they will also be effected and will slow down resulting in a long processing backlog if a system has multiple landables with volcanism.

It's also worth noting that the delays effect scan results for all types of POI, Human, Thargoid, Guardian, Other, and not just the Geo and Bio POIs.

Does that explain the problem, and why it can have significant impact?
 
Generally what’s going on with scan times is:

- Non-landables - instant response (because there’s no surface POIs currently, so there is no dependency on the planet generation system for the POI info).
Just FYI, from what we've been told, not only are there no POIs, but non-landable planets don't currently have a real surface. They only get a generated texture - terrain generation is not run at all.

The aspect of this that really puzzles me is that FSS results for planets with only bio sites can apparently be generated quite quickly. It seems like those would also depend on terrain generation for placement. I wonder if, for bio sites, there is a short circuit whereby their existence and approximate position is determined while the terrain generation is still at a coarse level. That would explain why the sites sometimes jump around on final approach - perhaps the exact placement is only determined when the fine terrain mesh is generated.
 
Just FYI, from what we've been told, not only are there no POIs, but non-landable planets don't currently have a real surface. They only get a generated texture - terrain generation is not run at all.

The aspect of this that really puzzles me is that FSS results for planets with only bio sites can apparently be generated quite quickly. It seems like those would also depend on terrain generation for placement. I wonder if, for bio sites, there is a short circuit whereby their existence and approximate position is determined while the terrain generation is still at a coarse level. That would explain why the sites sometimes jump around on final approach - perhaps the exact placement is only determined when the fine terrain mesh is generated.
Well the thing with the planets with just Bio sites is that they’re all landables without volcanism.

I’d always wondered similarly if the issue was just with geo sites, but from what Stephen said it’s both geo and bio, which means it’s the volcanism part where the issue is. That actually makes a lot of sense as simming up a planet with active geology would presumably be quite a bit more involved than simming up an inactive planet.

Also, some bio sites definitely have a location dependency on specific surface features. Ejecta craters in the case I know of, but that’s quite a large scale feature. However, similar and more fine scale dependencies may well be there as well.
 
5 days is not long enough for beta testing ..... if FD are serious about the tests. It would take a couple of days to get out into the black , let alone test the FSS seriously out there
There will be people out in the black. In fact there's a good chance I'm 1,600 ly out. (I don't fly far; plenty of fun stuff close in.)
Unscanned systems start about 800ly out and by 1,500 ly they're almost all unscanned unless you're on a line to a nebula, Sag A* etc.
 
There will be people out in the black. In fact there's a good chance I'm 1,600 ly out. (I don't fly far; plenty of fun stuff close in.)
Unscanned systems start about 800ly out and by 1,500 ly they're almost all unscanned unless you're on a line to a nebula, Sag A* etc.
The way I see it is that what we're going to test doesn't require pristine unscanned systems, just unscanned by you should work. So if I didn't miss something there's no need to leave the bubble.
 
Ok, firstly there is a genuine issue. Perhaps it doesn't particularly effect you.

To explain.

  • If a body is non-landable the scan results return instantly.

  • If a body is landable but doesn't have volcanism, then scan results return in a few seconds.

  • If a body is landable and has volcanism, then scan results return take a lot longer to return. It can run up to nearly a minute for me personally.
Also, while a landable with volcanism is being processed, that causes a bottleneck / block in processing, and if other landable bodies are scanned while that is still going on then they will also be effected and will slow down resulting in a long processing backlog if a system has multiple landables with volcanism.

It's also worth noting that the delays effect scan results for all types of POI, Human, Thargoid, Guardian, Other, and not just the Geo and Bio POIs.

Does that explain the problem, and why it can have significant impact?
being realistic , there is not so much variety of bio / geos / vulcanism to consider important until they add something else, if they ever do.
Personally,If I go alone to explore, I take it easy, scan and then look at the system map in case it is worth going down, honestly only go to the planet to see a different type of topography than I have seen, or if it has a beautiful landscape in the background for a photograph, I know the kind of things I can find in poi´s and where to look for them
, I do not have much interest in seeing a tree or a geiser that I already saw on other planet or for the money.
If I see them it is much better, besides that once you have been interested in that planet and have approached / descended to the planet, they appear on your left panel.

I don't know, i´m sorry if i sound like I want everyone to play like me, but it's not true,what I mean is that I don't see it as important as to spend time and resources to "fix it." That is really my thought about this.
 
And we get...
Yeah that's real game breaking stuff right there.....
Maybe it's not game-breaking. But it's pretty <expletive> annoying
152876

That's not cropped or enhanced; it's exactly what came out of the screen capture, scaled down to fit the forum.

I believe it's somewhat better after the September fix, but it's still there and still makes it impossible to take shots with high contract.
 
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Maybe it's not game-breaking. But it's pretty <expletive> annoying
And considering that some players play this game for the views and experience. It might be game breaking for them. We should never downplay the importance of a negative experience for some players. After all, I'm sure Frontier want as many as possible players to like the game and pay for paint jobs to support further development.
 
being realistic , there is not so much variety of bio / geos / vulcanism to consider important until they add something else, if they ever do.
Ok, so then logically the masking of other types of POI because of the delay in the geo / bios represents a problem. Yes/no?

Personally,If I go alone to explore, I take it easy, scan and then look at the system map in case it is worth going down, honestly only go to the planet to see a different type of topography than I have seen, or if it has a beautiful landscape in the background for a photograph, I know the kind of things I can find in poi´s and where to look for them
Lots of things aren't shown in the System Map. Prior to 3.3, the only way to find some things was fully searching planets using the MK 1 eyeball, (i.e. flying over the entire surface at a couple of km height) as they did not show on any scanners whatsoever. Do you know where to find all of those things?

Maybe you're not interested in those things and are only interested in the particular set of things you know how to find?

, I do not have much interest in seeing a tree or a geiser that I already saw on other planet or for the money.
If I see them it is much better, besides that once you have been interested in that planet and have approached / descended to the planet, they appear on your left panel.
I don't think I correctly understand what you're saying here. The first bit seems to say you're not interested in seeing some things, whereas the second bit seems to say that it's better if you do see them. I guess that's not what you mean, but I'm not sure what you do mean.

I don't know, i´m sorry if i sound like I want everyone to play like me, but it's not true,what I mean is that I don't see it as important as to spend time and resources to "fix it." That is really my thought about this.
Ok, so it's not something you see as an issue for you. That's fine. However that's a pretty poor criteria for determining whether time and resources should be spent on the issue.
 
Given the way it works already:
  • Some bodies scan instantly with no POIs
  • Some bodies scan in 2-3 seconds with no POIs
  • Some bodies take 20-30 seconds with POIs
I would think there is the possibility of a three-stage notification. First you get a "Likely", then you get "Present" and then "24 Geological".

That would mean getting information from the running GPU process though, and I think that would be a problem. It might be possible to do it based on run-time, just as we do now, but we wouldn't know if the extra time was because of Geo sites or Bio sites -- it couldn't differentiate them.

All in all, I'd prefer the proposed system with additions to report on the number of sites on the System Map.

Having the surface generation wait until DSS makes logical sense, but it's a big change to the game-play and it's unnecessary. FD have always prioritised game-play over simulation veracity. Look at multi-crew for example; you don't have to be in the same place to join a ship. Holo-presence is the only interstellar FTL information transfer that exists in the game.

Additionally, it makes no sense that the number of POIs is only reported in the FSS. It should always have been in the System Map.
Based on the feedback in this thread, some bodies with volcanism take a while to scan with no POIs.

Agreed the POIs should show up in the system map data panels in a more accessible way so there's no need to scroll down on every landable to show the results at the bottom of the list, and they really should show up on the surface level map of each planet, and that feature should show in the orrery.

I was actually thinking a step ahead, to when we get access to gas giants and landable atmospherics.
 
Or having an extra "deep scan" button in the FSS when a planet is focused. Let's say the FSS reports the basic information, but to get the scan you have to press another button. Granted, it adds one extra click-step to get the info, but then you have a choice to wait the 5, 10, 30 seconds or whatever. And you can actually make the choice based on the volcanic activity. Currently, I'm only interested if there are POIs on specific geysers/magmas, and don't care about the other. Perhaps this extra button could be something you can turn on or off (automation, i.e. works the way it works now, auto-scan without pressing button), giving people who want to scan everything at all times the chance to turn on the auto-scan.

That solution doesn't require any changes to how Frontier is resolving the map and POIs at all. It's only an extra "auto-scan" option in the system panel for the FSS, and add one button in the controls that you can assign. People who wants to keep the current system: turn on auto-deep-scan. People like me who only want to scan specific planets: turn off auto-deep-scan and assign a button to "deep-scan" giving me the control in the FSS when to do it or not.


And yes, if you do a deep-scan the count should be put in the sysmap. DSS not needed.


Also, after making the FSS assigning the locations, I think they can scrap the DSS. Only purpose is to make extra credits. Unless they could add more things that could be discovered with the DSS that actually would be fun to find.
Scrapping the DSS may not be possible, depending on how FD plan to integrate gas giants and atmos.
 
Well the thing with the planets with just Bio sites is that they’re all landables without volcanism.

I’d always wondered similarly if the issue was just with geo sites, but from what Stephen said it’s both geo and bio, which means it’s the volcanism part where the issue is. That actually makes a lot of sense as simming up a planet with active geology would presumably be quite a bit more involved than simming up an inactive planet.

Also, some bio sites definitely have a location dependency on specific surface features. Ejecta craters in the case I know of, but that’s quite a large scale feature. However, similar and more fine scale dependencies may well be there as well.
Way out possibility: Is the delay linked to sub-surface features eg. caves or resource fissures we can't currently access pending legs / EVA or some kind of mining machinery placement mini-game in future?
 
There will be people out in the black. In fact there's a good chance I'm 1,600 ly out. (I don't fly far; plenty of fun stuff close in.)
Unscanned systems start about 800ly out and by 1,500 ly they're almost all unscanned unless you're on a line to a nebula, Sag A* etc.
Was near Barnards Loop recently and was surprised how few Col 69 Sector systems weren't mapped.
 
Way out possibility: Is the delay linked to sub-surface features eg. caves or resource fissures we can't currently access pending legs / EVA or some kind of mining machinery placement mini-game in future?
As I understand it, yes and no. It's linked to the simulation of sub-surface activity but only to the extent that that sub-surface activity determines the surface. I don't think that the simulation of sub-surface activity results in sub-surface features though.

For reference, here's some of the things that the system and planet generation takes into account / works through:

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Source: FD stream - Discovery Scanner - Creating a Galaxy with Dr Anthony Ross (time for that particular shot is 57:25 if the link doesn't go through to the correct time.)

There's more detailed info about it all around, but I don't have links to it and it'd take quite a bit of searching to find. Maybe someone else has some links they can provide.
 
Scrapping the DSS may not be possible, depending on how FD plan to integrate gas giants and atmos.
True. The DSS would make sense if it actually gave more information that the FSS can't give, so they need to step up the functionality of it. Perhaps they could be useful for gas and atmos.
 
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