ANNOUNCEMENT Gamescom Reveals - Fleet Carrier Details

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Can you clarify? You're saying that gameplay is not essential to the program and is fully optional; mostly left to the imagination?
There are games such as Tie Fighter and Half Life where you make your way through a story going from one event to another as you succeed at each challenge but once you have reached the end of the story there is nothing more to do and if you start again you will go through the same steps as before.

With Elite you can go almost anywhere in the galaxy and while your activities are more limited than that you can do as much or as little of each one as you wish and if you start over you will not get an exact repeat of what has gone before.

So yes things like missions, power play, BGS manipulation, ranking up with the navies are all optional and you can imagine your own reasons for what’s happening and why you are doing what you are doing.
 
But is a beach without people any less valuable than an amusement arcade without people?

There are people who would look the the Elite Dangerous beach and say there's nothing there; no amusement arcades, no burger shack, nothing to do all day but sit on the sand. And that's OK, they're better off at the other beach. We can explain until we're blue in the face that the beach is better because it doesn't have these things, but it generally doesn't achieve anything. And perhaps the Elite beach might profit from a few cafes and maybe one small amusement arcade. But if you were to take half the beach for rides, have brass bands marching up and down, if you banned dogs and kites for fear of health and safety, you will destroy the very things that made the beach what it was.

It is true that the stories in ED do not go anywhere. The Guardian ruins are a simple grind, once the commanders who went before us have discovered their secrets, the generation ships are just sad stories, Galnet articles either have no effect on the galaxy or finish in almost meaningless community challenges. It could be better, but anything that is added must be optional and therefore added with a delicate touch. People like building sand castles and will get annoyed if a donkey ride that they have no interest in stomps them down and drops poo on them. On the other hand, designers with such a deft touch are expensive to hire.
So; in essence Elite ie devoid of meaningful gameplay because gameplay is optional and/or up to the imagination. The "Incredible gameplay" (quoting the Kickstarter) isn't actually incredible in that it would be 'Causing great surprise or wonder; astonishing,' (OED definition) but is actually just credible i.e convincing; you imagine it for yourself or convince yourself that it is gameplay.

Would it be fair to assume that the promises of incredible gameplay aren't that at all and is very standard, repetitive and ordinary gameplay? Therefore, not fulfilling promises set out in the kickstarter or the advertising for the game, unless we take the noun 'game' as a secondary or tertiary definition.

Would it be fair to assume my original statement; "there is zero gameplay after you obtain the big ships?;" taking into account if you are willing to make do with activities of the imagination which are unique and individual to one's own mind and/or tolerance of the lack of in-built and worthwhile gameplay mechanics after you have all the big ships and exhausted all avenues; will fleet carriers add gameplay?

I posit that they will not.
 
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So; in essence Elite ie devoid of meaningful gameplay because gameplay is optional and/or up to the imagination. The "Incredible gameplay" (quoting the Kickstarter) isn't actually incredible in that it would be 'Causing great surprise or wonder; astonishing,' (OED definition) but is actually just credible i.e convincing; you imagine it for yourself or convince yourself that it is gameplay.

Would it be fair to assume that the promises of incredible gameplay aren't that at all and is very standard, repetitive and ordinary gameplay? Therefore, not fulfilling promises set out in the kickstarter or the advertising for the game, unless we take the noun 'game' as a secondary or tertiary definition.

Would it be fair to assume my original statement; "there is zero gameplay after you obtain the big ships?;" taking into account if you are willing to make do with activities of the imagination which are unique and individual to one's own mind and/or tolerance of the lack of in-built and worthwhile gameplay mechanics after you have all the big ships and exhausted all avenues; will fleet carriers add gameplay?

I posit that they will not.
No, your original statement is wrong. I know this from my own gameplay as I said before.
 
No, your original statement is wrong. I know this from my own gameplay as I said before.
May I ask of you; when you are conducting this gameplay, having stated that you own a variety of ships. What is the goal you are working toward?

Are you working toward a goal of your own devising i.e an online role playing group or, something that is a part of the in-built framework of the Elite Dangerous program?
 
May I ask of you; when you are conducting this gameplay, having stated that you own a variety of ships. What is the goal you are working toward?

Are you working toward a goal of your own devising i.e an online role playing group or, something that is a part of the in-built framework of the Elite Dangerous program?
Well, no. You made a blanket statement which can be invalidated by only one counterexample. I pointed out that I'm a counterexample. That's it.

I'm aware that one popular escape when shown evidence that what one has said is wrong, is to redefine what one has said. I therefore guess that you want a list of my game activities so that you can pick them apart and redefine them as "not proper gameplay". I'm not going in for that: I'm just using "gameplay" with the natural definition of "what one experiences when one chooses to play a game".

I would think we could agree on the weaker statement that "there is no gameplay which interests you once you've got the big ships". I don't think that statement makes the point you wanted though; it just suggests that once you've got those ships you'd do well to try a different game.
 
Well, no. You made a blanket statement which can be invalidated by only one counterexample. I pointed out that I'm a counterexample. That's it.

I'm aware that one popular escape when shown evidence that what one has said is wrong, is to redefine what one has said. I therefore guess that you want a list of my game activities so that you can pick them apart and redefine them as "not proper gameplay". I'm not going in for that: I'm just using "gameplay" with the natural definition of "what one experiences when one chooses to play a game".

I would think we could agree on the weaker statement that "there is no gameplay which interests you once you've got the big ships". I don't think that statement makes the point you wanted though; it just suggests that once you've got those ships you'd do well to try a different game.
I don't believe I have attacked anyone nor picked apart their arguments and am merely asking questions to clarify definitions of gameplay.

I did not amend my original statement; I asked to take into consideration a few factors alongside my statement.

In your closing argument are we assuming that you and I are the sole arbiters of deciding the uses and definition of nomenclature and the interactions and experiences of those that use the program, Elite Dangerous?

Is it fair to assume that you believe your experience and engagement with Elite Dangerous are paramount and all other experiences are superfluous; since it is your sole counterargument that negates the arguments of myself and many other people?
 
You can't have 300 carriers suddenly pop up in Shin.
Yes you can. What there won't be, as we understand it, is 300 in the same instance. It seems as though there will be 1 per instance. How many per system that are visiable as signal sources remains to be seen. I can see the servers taking some nose dives during the first few days after the update until FD tweak it.
 
Yes you can. What there won't be, as we understand it, is 300 in the same instance. It seems as though there will be 1 per instance. How many per system that are visiable as signal sources remains to be seen. I can see the servers taking some nose dives during the first few days after the update until FD tweak it.
I don't see this being an issue. My guess is carriers won't be pilotable in supercruise at all, therefore the system-wide supercruise Instance will have nothing added to it. Carriers will almost certainly warp out of, and into, normal space exclusively, which means they'll be in their own self contained instance which won't make so much as a blip in anyone else's game unless they are also docked on the carrier when it jumps. It seems unlikely that carriers will "exist" for anyone who isn't an owner or on a whitelist. I suppose it's possible that carriers will get their own signal sources, but I really doubt it. More likely it'll be like the way wing beacons function now.
 
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Would it be fair to assume my original statement; "there is zero gameplay after you obtain the big ships?;" taking into account if you are willing to make do with activities of the imagination which are unique and individual to one's own mind and/or tolerance of the lack of in-built and worthwhile gameplay mechanics after you have all the big ships and exhausted all avenues; will fleet carriers add gameplay?

I posit that they will not.
There is only one aspect of the game that is changed by having the funds and rank for the big ships and that is you no longer need to pursue the funds and rank for the big ships. If you consider that pursuit gameplay then having to at least raise funds for a Fleet Carrier will restart that pursuit and thus add gameplay.

I object to the implication that activities of our imaginations are less worthwhile than mechanics built into the game.
 
So; in essence Elite ie devoid of meaningful gameplay because gameplay is optional and/or up to the imagination. The "Incredible gameplay" (quoting the Kickstarter) isn't actually incredible in that it would be 'Causing great surprise or wonder; astonishing,' (OED definition) but is actually just credible i.e convincing; you imagine it for yourself or convince yourself that it is gameplay.
Nope. Look at these:
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It's incredible.
 
These things are interesting but not incredible having being a part of credible science for quite a long time.

Is this gameplay? Unless gameplay can be classed as observing graphics or undertaking a journey to do so.

Looking at stuff is cool. However, looking at stuff, in my opinion, is not gameplay. Akin to walking around a museum; you can 'be game' to walk around a museum but walking around a museum cannot be considered 'a game' with out expecting and/or demanding another party to consider it to be so.

Can you clarify what the point you were making was? I can't assume too much with the brevity of the text. Is it up to my imagination to understand what you meant?

I would rather you explained it to me.
 
I would rather you explained it to me.
I engage in gameplay and as a result I experience wonders. That is incredible gameplay. What other definition is there? Game mechanics that are unimaginable? I don't think that would be fun.

Elite Dangerous is an MMO. That removes the possibility of the majority of plot arcs immediately. We can't send one man to bomb the Thargoid Queen if every one of two million pilots has to be that one man. You can't have a meaningful grand betrayal if we only get to read about it a week later on GalNet. I don't know how many hours you have in ED, but I imagine it is more than the number of hours in the longest FPS or RPG game. You'd have finished the game already if it depended on human-designed plot. The longest RPGs only take 130 hours to complete ( https://www.thegamer.com/video-games-longest-hours-least-most/ )

I think there is more that can be done with computer generated plots. They could be more complex, they could build on each other, they could branch. They could introduce meaningful and persistent NPCs, and could feed into and expand on a grand design drawn up by Frontier. But if Frontier took up that challenge then they would be literally the first. No other game has even got close to attempting it. Look at the radiant quests in Fallout 4 for example. There's about three of them and they go nowhere. Look at Skyrim; it's the same few quests over and over again. Even most of the human-designed missions are "go to this dungeon and bring back the doohickey that you find at the very end," or "go to this place and beat up the monster that will spawn in."
 
I don't see this being an issue. My guess is carriers won't be pilotable in supercruise at all, therefore the system-wide supercruise Instance will have nothing added to it. Carriers will almost certainly warp out of, and into, normal space exclusively, which means they'll be in their own self contained instance which won't make so much as a blip in anyone else's game unless they are also docked on the carrier when it jumps. It seems unlikely that carriers will "exist" for anyone who isn't an owner or on a whitelist. I suppose it's possible that carriers will get their own signal sources, but I really doubt it. More likely it'll be like the way wing beacons function now.
We will have to wait and see of course, and i didn't say anything about them being pilotable. But from what i've inferred, if a FC is in a system, yoiu will see it as a signal source, regardless of whether the owner is logged in or even in the system.
 
We will have to wait and see of course, and i didn't say anything about them being pilotable. But from what i've inferred, if a FC is in a system, yoiu will see it as a signal source, regardless of whether the owner is logged in or even in the system.
That would be neat. I'm betting it'll be a signal source for people on a whitelist only, though. So if you're an authorized user of the Carrier it'll appear as a signal source for you, regardless of whether the owner is online or not, but I doubt it'll show up for every stranger by default. I'll be surprised if Frontier is opening the floodgates to allow everyone to leave an essentially permanent construct anywhere they want. Although I guess if the basebuilding rumors are true then it's something they might have to figure out sooner or later.
 
i was hoping we could pilot them and fuel would easier to get like just go to fuel tanker or starport but still looking foreword to it
 
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