Focused Feedback - PC Participants

I tried the basic carrier but could not install the optional modules as the admin systems were full. My thoughts:

Pros:
  • When carriers were originally squadron only I had no interest in them at all, so was pleased to see them available to all.
  • The built in shipyard, modules and storage are a great addition for the owners.
Cons:
  • Upkeep: I hate any mechanic that penalises people when they are NOT playing. In fact I will not buy a carrier on principle because of this, even if upkeep is a small amount (then why have it at all). People should be encouraged to play by rewards not penalised. Use a timer instead of upkeep to deal with abandoned carriers.
  • It is difficult to locate systems that sell or maintain carriers in game (without going to an external website), using the galaxy map filters is like opening Google maps and searching for a house in London by looking for a red car parked outside - why can't we apply a filter and get a list of all relevant systems, this is meant to be the future?
  • Fuel: not everyone likes mining, there should be alternative game-play methods of obtaining fuel (trade, purchase, combat zones), or let the crew mine it. It also takes far too long.
  • No bridge - hopefully if we get space legs, this will be added.
As carriers are currently implemented they will not persuade me to come back to this game as they feel more like a chore and I will wait and see what the 2021 update brings.
 
Tested last night for about 3 hours and this is what i found odd/not working:
  • the filter to find systems who sell FC doesn't work if i wasn't already i those systems, and for some reason the game wasn't keeping this records from my save. I had to manually search for systems on internet and go there.
  • the system was full so my FC was parked in a system nearby but with no Carrier Administration service, so it was impossible to buy services. Also again filter didn't worked for same reason, so no way to find a system with Administration services.
  • i transferred a ship before making a jump in another system, and i got message that the ship arrived right away, but the ship was still in transit. After the jump the ship arrived on FC in new system but according the timer from previous system. The timer should be updated with new (longer) distance after the jump.
  • 15 mins prepare for a jump its still too much, 5 mins could be more than enough for everyone to land/depart/whatever close to a FC. Having so many minutes to wait its just more waste of time in game.
Good things i noticed:
  • i wasn't shoot or got a fee from my own carrier because i was loitering some landing pads of npc's trying to land
  • fast refuel, rearm, repair buttons are a very good thing in station menu
Didn't manage to try more things, but i noticed bookmark icons have different colors now, but still no way to filter them or if you click on a bookmarked system to have selected the bookmark from left window also so its easier to see the changed name.
 
I bought a fleet carrier and flew from the bubble to Colonia with a friend and did some sightseeing on the way. It was fun and carriers will definitely change how I play the game, both with others and on my own. I will most likely play more with others.

But, what should I do during the spin-up time?
  • I tried exploring the current and maybe one or two neighboring systems. 2 out of 10 times I missed the take off time. It's so hard to plan time and be somewhere else on a specific time in this game. Also if I find something interesting while exploring, my OWN fleet carrier wont wait for me and I can't cancel the jump.
  • I'm not going to sit on the pad for 16 minutes waiting for the countdown. I don't even get to see the jump.
  • So I just end up exiting the game and setting a 20 minute timer until I can do the next jump.

I would much prefer a short spin up time, 5 minutes or even less. An FSD cooldown so it adds up to 20 minutes is acceptable because then I can go out and explore or something without being stranded if I miss the time.

Why is the lockdown 2½ minute before take off? It's more or less 2 minutes just waiting and watching the wall.

Why is there a 1970s robotic voice when I employ (and fire) PEOPLE to take care of my carrier? It doesn't make any sense. Also, that voice isn't very articulated. Please switch to a real human voice.

Having auto-dock abort half-way through while a friend docking manually is allowed to continue and dock successfully is not ok. Please fix timings around lock-down.

Not being allowed to see the carrier jumping when on the carrier is ridiculous. People outside the ship can see it fine. The audio and smoke is cool the first 5 times, but then it looses the charm. Add a "loading screen" if you have to for technical reasons.

Changing a bunch of icons in Galaxy Map to orange makes it more difficult to find the one I'm looking for. In the issue tracker this is reported but closed as "by design". Well, I disagree with that design choice, it's just a sea of orange in the bubble now. Yes they have different icons but that is hard to see when they are partly covered by other icons. Please reconsider.

With fleet carriers I'm also more mobile and can get to more sites in the game. So it would make sense to have more bookmarks available to use than currently. And a way to categorize them would also be great. I would for example want to bookmark stations outside the bubble, guardian sites, thargoid sites, some noteable stellar phenomena, som beautiful places I have visited, places I want to visit. And if I could bookmark fleet carriers that would be super!

Beta 2 has continued to be a bug fest and I honestly think carriers are not ready until a bunch of bugs have been fixed. Hopefully you look at unconfirmed bugs as well as it's hard to get bug reports confirmed without a player group joining in and adding confimations and votes. I would not be proud of releasing carriers with the number and level of bugs right now. If you want people to feel good about carriers and want to buy livery, it can't be a bug fest on release.
 
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First my general thougts:
Fleet carriers are slow and expensive, and have less real applications and fun than us and you expected to.
My first dissapointment is making optional some services like fuel or maintenance which should be part of the carrier core services and a pretty useless service like the Market service part of the carrier core services instead of an optional service. Market being an useless service links with my following argumentation:
I think it's an error to try to sell us the idea than the target of the FC is to made it profitable as some people said because (saving some exceptions) this will be impossible in 99% cases. I mean, there is no way to do it profitable enough to cover its upkeep.
My first reason is visibility: There are commercial routes in the game which are, let's say, "profitable" (not as mining but I think overall economy of the game is broken and push us to do some specific activities while other activities are forgotten). These routes may vary but will have some pattern, and you could get some information about prices and routes from the markets and galaxy map, and from external websites like inara or eddb. Carriers will simply not have enough visibility. There is no way to know in there is a nearby carrier which buys or sells some specific commodity.
Second one is simply profit: You'll need to commerce with something interesting for other players, so they will look for profit aswell. Imagine you load your carrier with tons of a specific commodity and jumps towar a dydtem where this commodity is bougth by 3 times its original cost. Ding! Profit!
But you can't sell it by this cost because other commanders will not be buying it since they will get no profit from it so you decide to set it for selling by two times its original cost and wait until all commodities are sold. Why would you wait several days for a 100% profit when you could get the 200% profit by selling it yourself?
Visibility should also be applied to shipyard and outfitting, doing these modules hardly profitable.

Upkeep costs had been reduced but are still not fair, and will not solve the problems they intent to solve, which is carrier inactivity. Players with enough amount of credits may be able to buy a carrier and leave it inactive in any system they want nearly forever, while players with enough credits to buy the carrier but not to keep it forever will be punished by the designed solution no matter they use it or they don't. So this will push players to more profitable and "economic broken" activities such as mining. And we're at the start point again, with all people doing the same thing instead of incentivating the variety.
There are a lot better ways to avoid inactivity for me. You could simply look for inactive carriers (let's say, those which had not received visits for a week, or which users had not been logged in for a week) and temporally deactivate those until the player logs in again.
Lowering the upkeep, taking a % of carrier benefits (if any) and implementing this kind of solution is the way to go I think.

About cargo capacity, shipyard and modules, I'm a bit dissapointed with this also. It has no sense to have 8xL landing pads which occupes nearby a half of the carrier surface but being able to store, lets say, 25 anacondas inside the carrier, or being able to move up to 25.000T of any commodity but also the same 25.000T of that commodity and 25x1500T Type-10 ships and up to 120x160T modules.
I think there is a missing opportunity here to develop a really amazing inventory management. We already know the stored ships and modules weight (and we could assign a generic minimum weight for non-weight modules aswell) so the carrier should have more cargo capacity but the stored ships and modules should occupy part of that capacity aswell. And of course they should be took in consideration for fuel usage also. It's not fair to spend same fuel to jump with an empty carrier and with a carrier full of ships and modules.
This also opens a lot of possibilities which are in my mind, i.e.: sharing some amount of storage space with specific players (friends). I would write you all these ideas if you want to.

Then short answers to specific questions:
  • Once you have your Fleet Carriers, we would like owners to give us feedback on:
    • Jumping the Fleet Carrier to new locations.
      • The updated jumping preparation and cooldown times. Originally it would take 1 hour for a Fleet Carrier to prepare for a jump, and 1 hour for it to cool down, we have now reduced this to a 15 minute preparation time and a 5 minute cooldown.
        Preparation and cooldown seems ok for me. It could be distance dependant maybe so preparation or cooldown will be less when you jump to nearby systems (with a minimum of course)
      • Navigating through the Galaxy and/or System map to plot the route.
        I cannot open the system map for already visited systems from the carrier which is weird. I would like to plot a long route as we do with normal ships which will be useful for exploration ot long travel distances. I don't care if I need to trigger the jumps manually but plotting the carrier route would be great.
    • Using the updated standard services available to you.
      It's a great improvement but would be great to have refuel and maintenance systems also available for me (and other people in my wing if possible).
    • Try out different Fleet Carrier crew members.
      It's ok but useless. Crew members tend to look like potential criminals or is just my impression?
    • Transferring any cargo from your ship to the Fleet Carrier.
      Not tested in deep but seems like a big vault for commodities since I think commodity market will be useless.
    • Filling the Fleet Carrier with Tritium, which you can get by mining Ice Asteroidsor purchasing at stations that supply it.
      I think transferring tritium manually from a nearby station to the carrier is pointless. I'm paying the carrier crew, they could go to acquire the tritium. Is Jeff Bezos fueling his delivery vans? No, his employees do that. Ok, my carrier is not amazon but I think we should be able to buy commodities directly from a nearby station from the carrier (maybe with a small delivery fee).
      • Using Standard, Surface, or Subsurface mining methods to acquire Tritium.
        Covering tritium consumption in long range expedition (including return) by mining is an impossible or too much hard task for a single or very few people due to the mining profit and carrier consumption. It will be only suitable for middle to large groups of people.
  • With the additional services available to you, we would really appreciate your feedback on all of these. We understand that kitting out your Fleet Carrier for your playstyle is important, but it would be helpful for us to see owners try each and every service they can.
    • Outfitting
      I'm happy to have this for personal use for free. I would be glad to share it with a limited amount of people maybe. Not tested as shop.
    • Shipyard
      I'm happy to have this for personal use for free. I would be glad to share it with a limited amount of people maybe. Not tested as shop.
    • Redemption Office
      Not a big deal for me due to my current playstyle. Not enough profitable anyways.
    • Advanced Maintenance
      This and refuel service should replace the Market as a core service, and would be great to share it with wing members if not possible to share it with everybody without buying it completely as shipyard or outfitting.
    • Secure Trading
      Not a big deal for me due to my current playstyle. Not enough profitable anyways.
    • Universal Cartographics
      A must have for exploration, but since this service is available in every outpost or station, I think it should also be part of the core services.
  • Check out the Remote Fleet Carrier Maintenance and make sure all the functions work the same way as when you are docked at the Fleet Carrier.
    Works fine for me, but I thnk a must should be the ability to move tritium from cargo to fuel as it has been requested so many time.
  • Carrier Upkeep
    • What are you thoughts on the changes to the upkeep costs?
      As I wrote in my general opinion, I think upkeep punish inactive players and players which spend their time with non massive profitable activities by the wrong reason. I'm ok with some affordable upkeep but I will likely lower it and take a part of carrier benefits, if any, and implement some kind of inactivity monitor for carriers in order to temporary take out inactive carriers no matter how rich is their owner.
 
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Focused Feedback - Fleet Carries

After extensive tests involving various mechanics, functions, menus and etc... These are my complaints and suggestions, to polish the use of fleet carriers I ask you to be testing the beta either as owner of Fleet Carriers or visitor I left your ideas, complaints and suggestions, the time to do this and now!

Take advantage of the topic to cut and discuss ideas before you formulate your feedback.

COMPLAINTS

Player Experience

  • The voice of the fleet carrier traffic controller is very low, the effect on the voice alone already makes it difficult to understand, added to the sound effects during a jump is completely incomprehensible.
  • position yourself behind the fleet carrier's engines should cause your ship to warm up.
  • Jump animation, additional effects need to be added, there are no voting effects of the Fleet Carrier during the jump, there is no firing of some energy beam or energy field around the Fleet Carrier or anything else that justifies the engines at the rear of the ship simply magically opening a hole in the middle of the hyper space in front of the ship.
  • There must be obvious wear on the hull of the fleet gate.
  • Add an icon to display the location of the fleet carrier of the squad members.
  • Add option in The Fleet Holder settings to display or not the location for squad members.

    icone FC dos membros da esquadra.jpg
  • Display the Fleet Carrier icon of friends in different color.
  • The name of the fleet gate should appear in the hangar.

    nome porta frotas.jpg
  • Extremely limited cargo space if you want to do more than one thing.
  • Ability to determine different rates for different types of services, display rate percentage in the system map.
  • Add a detailed history of service and market usage. (how many people have already supplied, the total already supplied, total profit with this service), (how many people have noticed, the total repaired, total profit from this service), (the amount sold and purchased of each merchandise as well as its individual profit in addition to the general profit of the market), (number of systems visited, total distance traveled, time of activity of the fleet carrier) (total tritium donated , total tritium used).
  • In navigation (adminOS) there should be a reminder of the preparation time for the jump and the cooling time of the engines.
  • Scheduled jump and route, be able to display the route to visitors and inform that there is a scheduled jump and that on that date the fleets port had left the system.
    my suggestion and put this function in the place where this the configuration tab of the fleet port, as fleet port owner do not like the idea of snooping around some information of mine there, such as the value of maintenance and things installed, and as a user that space would be useless, just to fill space. with this change it would also be possible to put an icon for quick transfer of cargo and money.

    359320_20200520175722_1.png


    porta frotas menu.png


    MENU FC.jpg
Quality of Life
  • Add the option "transfer multiple ships" to the shipyard, to call all selected ships on board the shipyard, the same for the modules, (PS: take advantage and separate the modules by category for God's sake)
  • Hold shift or directional in the control (↑↓ ) to increase or decrease quantities, quickly moving the values in: (+-1,000) (+-100,000), (+- 1,000,000), (+- 1,000,000,000).
  • Add several TAGs as well as in fleets so that the owner of the Fleet Carrier can display what activities practiced in the Fleet Carrier, currently only be able to choose a background image for the fleet carrier screen that also defines the activity of the fleet carrier.
  • The fleets port must possess the ability to plot routes, if I want to go to a destination 5,000ly away I have to select an approximate destination and wait 15 minutes for the jump, wait 5 minutes to be able to select another approximate destination and repeat this process 10 times, this is simply stupid! I hired crew to have to do everything myself? the fleets port should proceed with the route even if I am offline because in addition to having crew and persistent.
UI
  • The port fleets administration page (adminOS) is very small, small icons, very small text.
  • Changes and total remodeling in the package acquisition interface, remove the white background from the ship packs, better organize the interface leaving more intuitive and clear.
    see the example below the energy weapons page where we have eleven squares to show the continuous lasers, with my organization this number has been reduced to four, class 1,2,3,4, within class the amount of weapons, and the type of weapon, fixed, guided and turret.

LASER.jpg


1B-beam laser-galdar.png

1B-explicado_galdart.png


359320_20200511141613_0.png


NAVE.png


Market
  • Extremely limited cargo space if you plan to do more than one thing, installing the market should increase space from 25,000 units to 35,000 units. because different from packages that are measured "in cargo units" the same does not happen with goods, for example: 195 passenger cabins weighing a total of 1,250T occupy only 555 units, now 1,000T of water occupy 1,000 units. This makes it very difficult and very difficult to use the fleets port for trade in goods, if you are using other things to market 1 or 3 products will be as much as you will get.
  • When installing the market the load capacity should increase by 5,000.
  • Ability to buy and sell the same commodity at the same time.
  • It is not possible to select the quantity of a commodity for sale, you are limited to selling all or not selling, if you place the sale automatically the entire load of that item will be put up for sale without you setting a quantity, it is not possible to put the same merchandise to buy and sell.
    for example: if there are 10,000 tritium stored aboard the fleets port at the time you put tritium up for sale automatically all 10,000 units of tritium will be put up for sale, if there is tritium for sale you cannot buy tritium.
    The goods must have separate purchase, sale and inventory quantity in order to allow control over the flow of goods and market automation, so the purchased goods go to stock and the stock goes for sale, if the stock automatically fills the purchase of this merchandise and suspended, when selling and re-having space in the stock the market returns to buy the amount necessary to fill the stock.
Packages
  • Decontamination and Research drones should be moved to the xeno package.
  • The packages of ships and equipment should be more customizable, I think the packages should be assembled, selecting item type, item class and classification. in addition to generating some profit margin the packages must have discounts.
    • T1 3% discount + elite discount (2.5%)
    • T2 6% discount + elite discount (2.5%)
    • T3 8% discount + elite discount (2.5%)
Maintenance
  • Various information is missing here, weekly costs are not clear and detailed enough, there is no information on the codex.

  1. accumulated cost
  2. essential costs
  3. cost proceeded
there is no explanation of what they would be and how accumulated, essential, and projected costs work.
the cost of services and fixed, the only variation existing and between active, paused, the game will now predict whether I will pause a service or not? the only thing here could be projected and how much I'll spend on jumping based on a history of how many jumps I usually make per week.

Tritium
  • Allow automatic transfer of cargo to the tritium tank I hired crew for this.
  • Increase the size of tritium tank to 1,500.
Diversity of Options
a greater amount of services should be added so that I can customize my fleet carriers.
  • Optional service: TRITIUM TANK: when installed increases the capacity of the fleet holder tritium tank by 1,500.
  • Optional service - CARGO WAREHOUSE: increases cargo capacity by 5,000.
  • Optional service - WORKSHOP: the ability to hire an engineer, the engineer would have 5 levels and in each level you could fix a recipe to the engineer, as well as the ability to perform experimental effects, note that could only be learned recipes from engineers you already have unlocked. (all materials and quantities remain unchanged)
  • Optional service - DELIVERY: would allow you to order or deposit tritium at stations for payment to be transported to your fleet carrier, (I easily see this turning into a wing mission to deliver "x amount of tritium" in a distant location)

NOTE: do not forget to give like in the post, and of importance to do this to give relevance to the post.
 

Attachments

As Beta2 is about to end, my remaining and combined Pros and Cons about Carrier Ops as I experienced it (highly abbreviated and concise) :

Pros :
  • the Utility offered gets the job done and allows to extend Gameplay, which makes a Carrier very attractive
  • Jumprange and Cooldowns allow the Carrier to get to places (it'll still be slower than any Exploration Ship but then it's a huge rig, so that's okay for me; it's not a Racing Mamba after all)
  • an expensive but fully mobile FOB optionally offering nearly everything a CMDR could possibly wish for

Cons :
  • No Bridge... almost a showstopper, because it limits the experience of owning/operating a Carrier to a mere User Interface. That's a big one. That's almost enough to make me reconsider buying one, only the offered Utility is luckily able to force the needle back into the "buy" region. You're a guest on a rental MegaShip this way. This is bad. Very bad. (please keep in mind right now you're dealing with experienced Forum-goers and Beta Testers... it's only a question of time until you'll see Forum complaints running in from future customers "After working very hard I finally bought a Carrier - HOW DO I ENTER THE BRIDGE???!?". They will come. And it won't stop. Ever. Because the thing simply doesn't have a Bridge!)
  • No maneuvering/notional flying... again, very big point. With the Carrier residing as a 100% static asset. Again, enforces the guest-on-a-rental-MegaShip experience. I can't re-orient the Ship for a Screenshot or more favorable lighting conditions.
  • Experience : Moment of Purchase and Carrier Hyperjumps... sorry, very poor. A simple Screen and an Inbox Message is not how modern Games hand Players CapShips or Carriers that represent high-end gear. A nice Cutscene is in order showing your brand new Carrier undocking and being delivered to you. Similarly, being stuck staring at a Hangar Wall 15m in front of your nose as a "Hyperjump experience" for Carrier owners doesn't cut it. No Audio can make up for the missing visuals and passively waiting on a Timer. That just isn't entertaining.
  • Propagation of Market deals and Services to other Players... While the Commodity Market holds alot of potential, most of it is lost to the sheer inability to have Players at a distance even know IF or WHAT your Carrier is offering. If no System Map Data is available (a given for Carriers in Deep Space/Exploration), no Data is available at all. It's anyone's guess how many Players accept detours just to visit your Carrier System, dock and find out if you offer or need anything.
  • Tritium Fuel.... well, it's still quite hard to come by in Deep Space. Mining and the required Tonnage wouldn't be such an issue IF there was some NPC assistance to speed things up. Alas, there isn't, hence Carrier travel relying on Mining Tritium will mean it'll grind to a near-complete halt. And grindy that will be, as it'll repeat then for every single jump.
  • Docking Permission Matrix... vastly insufficient and guarantees Criminals/Gankers/Lulz folks could all but too easily hitch a ride on my very own Carrier.
  • Cargo Overview... I'm really missing a Cargo Management Page on the Carrier, from which I can easily view or click Cargo onto/off my current Ship. The mechanic to use the Ship's Cargo Page alone seems a bit cumbersome and on top it's super easy to overlook (happened to many)
  • Carrier News/Social Interaction/Stats.... all missing despite being crucial to any Carrier Owner. Who is onboard right now? Has someone stored Ships and Equipment on my Carrier? Is anyone maybe willing to perform tasks for my Carrier? How can I transmit my intentions for the Carrier to anyone visiting or docked at all ? How many Players visited my Carrier at all? These are must-haves.
  • On/Offloading Cargo... while it's great to be able to utilize upto ~20000 tons of Cargo space.... this still has to be moved. This is CG-worthy tonnage and thus - without any possible NPC assistance - very quickly becomes a massive burden sitting on the shoulders of an individual CMDR.
  • missing NPC support.... a big one again due to mentioned reasons. If at least hired NPC Crews could be sent on notional Mining Runs or sent On/Offloading Cargo to accelerate the whole process and take some burden off the Carrier CMDR, I'm very confident we'd be absolutely golden. However, it's not a thing despite making no sense not being an important option. You'll find no Carrier on the entire Planet where the Commander (or Admiral) is forced to personally do all the dirty work all alone. That'd be ridiculous, that's exactly what the Carrier Crew onboard does >for< the Carrier Commander. Not the way around. In ELITE, it's (once again) the wrong way around. The wealthy Commander owning the whole thing is the poor worker bee, while the worker bees literally hired for those exact duties sit passively around and do nothing. Can't even deploy a defensive Perimeter 10km around my own Carrier in Deep Space.
  • Weekly Upkeep... Well, I'd have no problem paying NPCs their salaries. HOWEVER... I expect to get something for my money. I expect them to >work< for that money and do their job, execute my orders. Alas, they don't. Noone around to help me load 15.000t of Tritium from a nearby Refinery. Noone around to help me mine some Tritium in Deep Space. I'm all alone again. This is BAD. And this specifically makes even the reduced Upkeep feel very foul and inappropriate (exception : 100k maintenance, totally okay because at least the Ship did its job for the money here)

IMHO these are Details that sooner or later have to be addressed, otherwise Carriers might easily go down into the "half-baked" bucket of ELITE content for many.
As I said a while ago : high-end Gear and high-end Content must offer a high-end Experience. It >must< be fleshed out and be very satisfactory... otherwise it simply isn't high-end.
I give my full consent.
 
I think it's an error to try to sell us the idea than the target of the FC is to made it profitable as some people said because (saving some exceptions) this will be impossible in 99% cases. I mean, there is no way to do it profitable enough to cover its upkeep.
I'm going to assume you mean the Marketing module can't be profitable (no comment on that because it does not interest me to be a merchanter), but if you mean the Fleet Carrier itself will always lose creds, I have to disagree strongly. Using a dedicated explorer+miner setup with only the minimum purchased modules (ship fueling, repair & maintenance, armory, UC), I made a 5-waypoint journey (~2500LY) to the Ring Nebula. Along the way I made around 50M in UC data from fairly casual exploring, no more than 50LY out from the waypoint unless it was an unusual star like an O or a Wolf-Rayet. That paid for 4 weeks of my upkeep (just under 11,000,000/wk) + jump total costs of 500k. Along that route I also found quite a few Tritium rings and had excess in cargo of around 300T after topping the tank off twice. The same rings also yielded about 100T of high-end minerals to be sold in the bubble for profit. Because of the beta time limit, I did not linger in the richer rings, though, and could have multiplied that figure by 10 or 20 with more dedicated effort. Same is true for the explorodata, I think 50M is a pittance compared to the potential.

I play Solo, always have, but I am pleased that my carrier can be utilized by all players, especially other explorers out in the black if they get in a bind. My accessible services had a 17% markup, fairly low compared to some of the other carriers I visited before obtaining my own. But I won't be selling any commodities or modules or ships out there, so those options just don't fit in my business plan.

Also, I am not an ultra-rich Commander. I had to mine for a couple of days to afford the FC due to the snapshot date, and after purchase barely had enough left to cover my ship insurance requirements. So my first jump was to a bubble system where I knew I could find LTD rings and could enhance my grubstake a little before heading into the black. By the time I had reached the Ring, I had doubled that bank, and had a helluva good time as well. For me the FC will add a great deal of depth to the game that had otherwise been missing since I gained Triple Elite.

Just Visiting
This lifeform discovery got me a 50,000cr Codex reward. I plan to head back to the RIng once carriers are live, it was that enjoyable an experience.
 
  • Once you have your Fleet Carriers, we would like owners to give us feedback on:
    • Jumping the Fleet Carrier to new locations.
      • The updated jumping preparation and cooldown times. Originally it would take 1 hour for a Fleet Carrier to prepare for a jump, and 1 hour for it to cool down, we have now reduced this to a 15 minute preparation time and a 5 minute cooldown. Please change to 5 min or less preparation and 15 or less cooldown.
      • Navigating through the Galaxy and/or System map to plot the route. It's not a route if it's only one jump. Buggy and lack of proper feedback when a system won't accept the carrier in Galaxy map. Counterproductive to have to go to a system to scan before being able to target anything other than primary star.
    • Using the updated standard services available to you. Advanced maintenance super buggy both in functionality and counts. Sometimes unclear what services adds what advanced maintenance and no info in Codex.
    • Try out different Fleet Carrier crew members. Why? They still don't serve me like they should serve an owner of their workplace.
    • Transferring any cargo from your ship to the Fleet Carrier. Difficult to find the first time. Hangs entire right hand console while transferring sometimes. No easy way to do the reverse to fill the ship.
    • Filling the Fleet Carrier with Tritium, which you can get by mining Ice Asteroidsor purchasing at stations that supply it. Mining is superslow compared to buying. Takes several hours to transfer bought Tritium from station to carrier to fill it up even if the carrier is as close as possible to the station. Difficult to find stations selling Tritium in game.
      • Using Standard, Surface, or Subsurface mining methods to acquire Tritium. Laser mining has super low yield compared to mining high value commodity, selling that and buying Tritium. Did not try surface/subsurface as it was not obvious to me in game that it was an option.
  • With the additional servicesavailable to you, we would really appreciate your feedback on all of these. We understand that kitting out your Fleet Carrier for your playstyle is important, but it would be helpful for us to see owners try each and every service they can.
    • Outfitting Same as for Shipyard below.
    • Shipyard Only used for ship transfer for friend. Packages are useless. Why would I want to buy packages of full price ships when players can go to Li Rong-Yu or Shinrarta Dezra and get discounts? Would prefer to have separate services for transfer/storage and selling. Why doesn't player sold ships at carrier go into inventory? Where do they go? If they can be magically moved away from the carrier, then the carrier should be magically restockable as well. Packaging idea seems to be designed by the same disappointing person that invented the ARX system. In both cases I'm much more prone to buying when I have individual control of what I'm buying. Having a weekly upkeep and a big installation cost seems totally unfair given that there isn't much possibility to make money with this service.
    • Redemption Office Only got it for exploration - handing in codex discoveries. Nice to have on board so Codex discoveries aren't lost with ship destruction. Also nice to get discoveries registered a lot faster. Will need 37 codex discoveries at 50.000 Cr to break even just for upkeep of this service. Not getting this service in live.
    • Advanced Maintenance Very buggy, doesn't always work and displays incorrect values/max for at least heatsing and chaff. Feels unfinished. Looks nicer than old adv. maint. Don't know why I would want to repair only some modules and not all of them every time. It feels stupid to get armory for being able to restock SRV, heatsink, I'd prefer that being repair. I play almost exclusively non-combat so armory sounds wrong. Refuel service is more or less pointless since I ususally bring ships with a fuel scoop. The only ships that would need a some fuel for me would be Tritium mining ships but as mentioned previously I'm unlikely to mine much Tritium. I'd rather just move a fuel scoop to that ship and go to the nearest star, which usually is next to my carrier.
    • Secure Trading Not tested.
    • Universal Cartographics Super nice to have onboard to not risk loosing data while out exploring away from civilisation. Nice to be able to have exploration data available for other commanders without having to travel back to civilisation. UC will not pay my carrier upkeep anyway, on a good week I could make 10-20 millions but there will be weeks I might not even play. I think I'll get it to lessen the burden but mostly because I don't want to risk loosing the data.
  • Check out the Remote Fleet Carrier Maintenance and make sure all the functions work the same way as when you are docked at the Fleet Carrier. Seems ok but didn't check all.
  • Carrier Upkeep
    • What are you thoughts on the changes to the upkeep costs? I guess they are acceptable but they basically just make me have to grind more money, it's not new and exciting gameplay. The real upkeep costs are the costs, logistics and access to Tritium.
    • The livery will not be available in the Beta. Hope the livery is better from the start than the carriers were in beta 1 & 2. But since I still don't like the ARX bundle model I'm unlikely to get them unless they are super cool.
 
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I'm going to assume you mean the Marketing module can't be profitable (no comment on that because it does not interest me to be a merchanter), but if you mean the Fleet Carrier itself will always lose creds, I have to disagree strongly. Using a dedicated explorer+miner setup with only the minimum purchased modules (ship fueling, repair & maintenance, armory, UC), I made a 5-waypoint journey (~2500LY) to the Ring Nebula. Along the way I made around 50M in UC data from fairly casual exploring, no more than 50LY out from the waypoint unless it was an unusual star like an O or a Wolf-Rayet. That paid for 4 weeks of my upkeep (just under 11,000,000/wk) + jump total costs of 500k. Along that route I also found quite a few Tritium rings and had excess in cargo of around 300T after topping the tank off twice. The same rings also yielded about 100T of high-end minerals to be sold in the bubble for profit. Because of the beta time limit, I did not linger in the richer rings, though, and could have multiplied that figure by 10 or 20 with more dedicated effort. Same is true for the explorodata, I think 50M is a pittance compared to the potential.
Yes, I'm talking about market module and other trading options.
But looking to your example I cannot give you the reason anyways, because you're not taking these exploration profits because of the carrier but despite it.
I mean, you will get these profits when you return to a populated system and sell your exploration data (maybe you would get less benefits fro the carrier because I thing UC is giving less amount from the carrier, i'm not sure). You're basically spending some money on moving a save point for your exploration data towards the galaxy.

Don't misunderstand me, it's cool because you could also move a miner ships, some additional modules or other interesting ships like an eagle or similar ships for these amazing planetary canyons. In my case it could allow me to explore with other kind of ships like the DBX which I love but I don't use for far away trips because of its obvious optional module limitations. But this is not an economic profit, you're spending money to get these services far away from the bubble because, as I said, you will sell your exploration data when you're back and you will get the same or maybe more amount of credits...
 
No, I will sell the mining produce after I return to the bubble. The UC data, even if discounted on the carrier, more than pays for upkeep. Having a base of operation far away from the bubble is priceless, as it frees me from doing extended planning to maintain resources. Having all my ships is another big plus. All in all exactly what I had anticipated.
 
No, I will sell the mining produce after I return to the bubble. The UC data, even if discounted on the carrier, more than pays for upkeep. Having a base of operation far away from the bubble is priceless, as it frees me from doing extended planning to maintain resources. Having all my ships is another big plus. All in all exactly what I had anticipated.
Well, you could mine in the bubble aswell and produce the same profit, and as I wrote you'll going to get UC data benefits so these doesn't count as profits coming from the fleet carrier itself or by any new game mechanic but from your activities outside it (in my opinion). You describe it pretty well in your post "Having a base of operation far away from the bubble is priceless". That's my point. This is like buying a car, you are not getting profits from it but it worths for you. It's pretty different, and I didn't wrote it doesn't worth the cost, I wrote you may not be able to get benefits from it.
 
  • Using Standard, Surface, or Subsurface mining methods to acquire Tritium:
    • Laser and Subsurface mined, and seemed same as LTD
    • All LTD hotspots were replaced with the Tritium hotspots at Lagoon Sector BW-M B7-2 A 5
    • Tritium core mining would be nice
  • Outfitting:
    • Countermeasure - Tier 1 was too expensive - option to exclude shield cell
    • Analytical, Defense, Fuel Mgmt, Mining utilities - Tier 3 to offer A class
  • Tritium fuel:
    • Allocated buy Tritium 1200 to store as fuel for a long trip
    • Used a Cutter as additonal extra Tritium fuel reserve
    • Please put selling Tritium stations along the Colonia Connection Highway
  • Wish list:
    • Carrier bridge view when jumping - owner VIP lounge
    • The other carrier's service list info on the system map like the other NPC stations
    • The owner shouldn't be scanned when docking to his own carrier
 
Well, you could mine in the bubble aswell and produce the same profit, and as I wrote you'll going to get UC data benefits so these doesn't count as profits coming from the fleet carrier itself or by any new game mechanic but from your activities outside it (in my opinion). You describe it pretty well in your post "Having a base of operation far away from the bubble is priceless". That's my point. This is like buying a car, you are not getting profits from it but it worths for you. It's pretty different, and I didn't wrote it doesn't worth the cost, I wrote you may not be able to get benefits from it.
The factor that increases profitability with the carrier is time. I can jump to unexplored territories much faster with the carrier, and stay out there much longer, than if jumping with, say, my exploraConda, without relying on neutron stars and white dwarfs for distance. I also prefer exploring & mapping in the local "bubble" around a waypoint more than along a plotted long-distance route (having done both now), and if I enjoy that, I will spend more time at it and be more productive.

Having hundreds, maybe even thousands, of tons of LTDs and the like secure in my carrier hold is also a big time saver, and by jumping to a market station's planet, I can reduce delivery risk as well. No more thousands of light seconds of tension with an interdiction lurking! I'm good at escaping them but still, less risk is always good.

So yes, some of the profitability is in "intangibles," but they are just as important to me as credits.
 
The factor that increases profitability with the carrier is time. I can jump to unexplored territories much faster with the carrier, and stay out there much longer, than if jumping with, say, my exploraConda, without relying on neutron stars and white dwarfs for distance.
I agree with most of what you said, especially about exploring a bubble around a point.

But do you not engineer your exploraConda? Even if you only engineer your FSD you should be able to get 62 ly without neutron boost and with a 7A fuel scoop do around 1 jump per minute. In 8-9 jumps (minutes) with your exploraConda you should be able to travel the 500 ly that the carrier does in 20-21 minutes per jump.
 
True, my exploraConda rig could reach circa 67ly per jump, and my Dolphin can now hit around 56ly (I prefer the Dolphin for scouting, and mapping), but I find stringing jumps solely for making distance tedious. To accomplish the time you cite I would have to forego exploring around each ship-jump waypoint. The carrier spin-up gives me time to stretch my real-world legs, definitely a QoL boon for a graybeard such as myself, make a pot of coffee (James Holden and I have that in common :) ), and read the latest ED forum posts, since GalNet seems to be on the fritz lately. Then POW!, another 250ly-radius bubble to explore, or mine, or race down alien canyons in SRV or fighter, and pop many screenies. For me the comparison of time taken to cover the distance is irrelevant, because there are other more important factors I take into consideration.

In another post I jokingly refer to my beta carrier as my Winnebago. That's really the crux of the matter. I have in RL driven the Alcan Highway three times, once in a comfy little camper with my parents, and later there and back again in a '69 VW bug I had rebuilt. Both could make decent mileage every day, but you can imagine which was more the laid back experience.
 
My final thoughts:

  • Once you have your Fleet Carriers, we would like owners to give us feedback on:
    • Jumping the Fleet Carrier to new locations.
      • The updated jumping preparation and cooldown times. Originally it would take 1 hour for a Fleet Carrier to prepare for a jump, and 1 hour for it to cool down, we have now reduced this to a 15 minute preparation time and a 5 minute cooldown.
        • I think this should be reversed - 5 minute spinup and 15 minute cooldown. I would like a way for visiting CMDRs to indicate whether or not they want to jump with the ship (with the default being "do not jump")
      • Navigating through the Galaxy and/or System map to plot the route.
        • The plotting itself worked as expected, however we really need a way to plot more than one jump at a time.
    • Using the updated standard services available to you.
      • All worked as expected
    • Try out different Fleet Carrier crew members.
      • I didn't really see the point, but I was able to change the image of the crew members.
    • Transferring any cargo from your ship to the Fleet Carrier.
      • This was FAR from intuitive, but once I figured it out, it worked. However, we HAVE to have text input boxes for all of these types of UI elements. PLEASE consider adding this everywhere we have to press and hold an arrow button for large numbers.
    • Filling the Fleet Carrier with Tritium, which you can get by mining Ice Asteroidsor purchasing at stations that supply it.
      • I personally feel that commodity costs for Tritium is way too high, but I was able to find it in most systems. I also think it needs to be MUCH more abundant in single hotspots (personally, I think using "Tritium" as fuel was a mistake, and that we should be able to scoop fuel for our FCs exactly the way we do for our ships, but I don't expect this to change).
      • Using Standard, Surface, or Subsurface mining methods to acquire Tritium.
        • Laser mining and subsurface mining worked as expected, but if we're going to keep this aspect of refueling, as mentioned before I think the yield needs to be MUCH higher for all methods.
  • With the additional services available to you, we would really appreciate your feedback on all of these. We understand that kitting out your Fleet Carrier for your playstyle is important, but it would be helpful for us to see owners try each and every service they can.
    • Outfitting
      • This worked as expected for storage/transfer to ship/transfer from another location. I did not use it for buying/selling modules.
    • Shipyard
      • This worked as expected for storage/transfer from another location. I did not use it for buying/selling ships
    • Redemption Office
    • Advanced Maintenance
      • I would have liked to see refuel/repair/restock as one service rather than buying them separately, but otherwise worked as expected
    • Secure Trading
      • Did not use
    • Universal Cartographics
      • Did not use
  • Check out the Remote Fleet Carrier Maintenance and make sure all the functions work the same way as when you are docked at the Fleet Carrier.
    • As far as I could tell, these all worked the same regardless of whether I was docked or not.
  • Carrier Upkeep
    • What are you thoughts on the changes to the upkeep costs?
      • I am definitely in the "remove offline upkeep completely" camp. I don't plan to purchase an FC in large part because of this mechanic
      • I don't have an issue with "upkeep/maintenance while actually using it", and I think the current upkeep costs would be fine if they only applied while the CMDR was in-game.
 
Most of this has been stated elsewhere, but here are my notes.

I had barely enough to credits afford a FC ($6B) and with reasonable upgrades this would have crazy to purchase. I have assets totaling about $6B in my own ships and stored outfitting, so I really didn't want to sell that. I was not planning to buy a FC but they looked really, really cool.

Then came the Fleet Carrier "blow-out" - this was a no-brainer to try a FC, so I did.

Thoughts and notes in no particular order:
  • Pretty crazy and unintuitive to locate where to purchase the FC, then pick up the FC, then outfit the FC given the systems were overloaded with FCs. This is presumably a temporary problem due to the Blow-Out, but nonetheless the initial experience was not great and required Googling to figure out what to do.
  • I concluded that I really liked having a Fleet Carrier, but I am not sure why.
  • The mechanics of docking, outfitting, tranferring tritium all seemed to work fine.
  • It would be nice to see some ovious ways where the cost is justified: such as install such-and-such service and this is how much profit you could conceivably make.
  • I expected the Uber-Cruise to be a visual treat compared to Super-Cruise, so being locked in the hangar during transit was a huge disappointment.
  • The tritium is not fun -- I initially jumped a couple of huge jumps, then tried mining for some tritium in my Mining Cutter; it took over an hour at a tritium hotspot to get 200 tons. I finally gassed up and flew the FC to some place that sold tritium and bought 700 tons of tritium for many million credit which I put into the FC's storage. Very expensive way to commute, but it felt good having reserve Tritium.
  • Event though the FC was essentially free during Blow-out, I still felt like I was flushing money down the drain signing up for FC services that had no visible payback, Tritium, and committing to insane weekly charges.The upkeep cost seems insane - but the Blow-out was over before I experienced any of that
  • You cannot fly the carrier, so it feels more like a station.
  • After transferring my favorite, fully-engineered ships (Corvette, Cutter, Pythons, and an Asp Explorer), I thought I would try some exploration to enjoy the 500ly range. This range is not as enjoyable as I expected. I have ships with 60 to 70 ly range, that fuel-scoop very well. And 9 jumps in those ships seems much faster, cheaper, and easier than the long wait to prep, fly, hunt for tritium or cooldown that the FC requires. The only advantage I can see to exploring with the FC is that I essentially get to drag the equivalent of a station with me, that is storing my ships and stuff.
  • So, after exploring for 3 or 4 jumps, I found myself sitting in my FC gloating but bored and wondering what I can do now….
  • Despite that, I really want to like it. But I cannot imagine how or why I would buy a FC at full price, with the upkeep costs as they are now, and the apparent lack of fun things to do with the FC.
  • Overall a bit of a let-down for me... sorry.
 
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Feed back for Beta 2 blowout.

Pros:
As a carrier owner being able to store all of your ships onboard.
Reduction of carrier maintenance (still needs to be better though).

Cons:
NPC's, serve no purpose, don't buy or sell goods to the carrier, so what's the point? Seriously what do they bring to a Commander who has a fleet carrier?
No visible option of being able to view your carrier jumping, that's something that should be an option. If it is, it's not clear how to do so.
Running costs still on the high side.
Not sure how a Commander is supposed to keep their finances coming in to maintain upkeep of their carrier if they're not anywhere near other players? For example let's say a Commander jumps several LY away from the bubble and away from Colonia, there's no traffic due to the location chosen, as the Commander in question likes to explore and mine. How do the finances work? How do they resupply limpets, mining missiles, that sort of thing?
Too restrictive in the type of components or ship bundles you HAVE to buy, shouldn't it be the Commanders choice?
No need for system security near your carrier. The carrier is invulnerable and has it's own defences, system security like NPC visitors, pointless.
No internal rooms to visit, perfect opportunity to have something else to look at other than your ships interior. A ready room, a lounge, observation deck, something along those lines.
 
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