My current exploraconda loadout includes a 64T cargo rack. Happy to take some rares along for the ride
Closed Ecological Life Support Systems
tl;dr: I think our ships are more successful at managing food recycling than you're giving them credit for, which would put the focus on rares and the sorts of heterogeneous "real" foodstuffs that our food printers probably aren't great at producing. I'm not trying to shoot down this RP idea for what are effectively RP reasons. Instead, I'm just suggesting that the RP reasons inform our choice of what to do for the RP idea.
Wall o' text version:
Most of our ships are old designs, from a time when hyperspace travel took a very long time. The advantage here is that, especially in light of modern miniaturized components, they're probably relatively roomy inside. Couple that with the mass of a life support system, food cartridge technology, and the tremendous amount of power produced by our power plants, and I think a compact CELSS is feasible.
Recycling air and water are not terribly difficult. There are working systems today. Call those things solved. Where we really run into issues is food production. We need a way to recycle waste into food. Or, at least, into whatever goes into a food cartridge. My suspicion is that makes it easier. The food doesn't have to be palatable. It doesn't have to be varied or tasty or anything other than nutritious.
Experiments and calculations suggest that algaeculture is capable of converting waste to algae with a yield of between 2.5 and 100 grams per liter per day. 2.5 g/l sounds too pessimistic (it's based on Chlorella, which is not the most nutrient dense algae, in a 1953 experement with a crude CELSS) and 100 g/l too optimistic, so let's assume 20 g/l. 1 gram of Spirulina is about 10 calories, so 540 grams is a 2500 calorie diet. Of green slime. However, that green slime contains all the basic building blocks of food, so if we could convert it to food cartridge refills, we're golden. Let's assume, for pessimism's sake, that the conversion process is inefficient, and so we need 5 grams of algae to produce 1 gram of food cartridge material. Our 540 grams per person turns into 2700 grams. At 20 g/l, that's 135 kg. Since the lightest life support system on a Sidewinder is half a ton, this seems to work. 135 for food printer material (I imagine the food cartridge material would feed directly into a food printer, without the use of cartridges), and the other 365 kg for heat, air, and water recycling. Add a small store for the additives that you can't produce this way (the spacer's equivelant of vitamins and minerals, tailored to their diet), and you've got a perfectly servicable CELSS.
Now, food printers sound like they don't do a great job at making really compelling food. Hot dogs taste good, but would you want to eat them every day? That's where you'd possibly want to get into hydroponics, but that requires space that might not be there on a small ship. But it's possible, by dedicating cargo bay space or making unwarranted assumptions about the ancestry of a ship.
I fly an Asp Explorer, for instance. It's the civilian version of the Asp II, a military ship used as a courier or to insert and recover military squads, and a crew of 2. To make the thing worthwhile, it probably needs to be able to carry at least 6 marines (total guess), so the lifesystem is sized to support up to 8, and there's likely a bunkroom and living space in the ship for those 6 marines. The Asp Explorer probably reuses this space for something else, but in my own roleplay my ship is a military surplus Asp II that's been repurposed into an exploration ship. In my ship, that space has been converted to hydroponics, producing easy to grow vegetables to suppliment what the food printer makes. With the proper application of handwavium, you could imagine that the additional space provides some small supply of things like cherry tomatoes and cucumbers and Lavian starfruit. None of which is needed for life (the algae-to-food-printer-material thing handles that), but they make printed food a little easier to take on a long voyage.
 Sidewinder description ("Modern, compact drives...").
 http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/lifesupport.php (algaeculture).
 Elite Dangerous RPG rulebook. I'm on the fence as far as its canon-icity goes, but it's got a license, so I'll run with it.
I totally agre. A thousand years from now, we surely have the right machinery and technology to morph our own waste back into food by the means of supplying power in the forms of heat, light and whatnot. Most of it works today already and what doesn't will probably be made to work within the next decades rather than centuries.
Therefore i vote to fill our cargo holds with lavian brandy and onionhead and ... you get the picture
I had a look at CELSS and did the calculation in an earlier post in this thread. Even with using algae you still need a minimum amount of space to provide food and life support for your crew members. It turns out that it's easier to carry 9000 units of of food and supplies, than to rely on CELSS because we're not out in the black long enough.
I don't believe CELSS can be minaturized any further than... 40m3 per person... I wonder if Algae can reduce that... I'll have a stronger read.
Sign me up as a Gatherer. Fwd to me the details of what and by when I should do them. Cheers.This will require at least 4 CMDRs with their Ships to share the load of the 132 tons of rare commodities. I would prefer to at least have 8 or even more CMDRs, both for redundancy (multiple copies of a rare distributed to different ships). One doesn't need a big anaconda to do this. Even with a cargo space of two, you can help carry and safeguard some cargo for the journey to beagle point.
[*=left]This role will require an initial support role, the Gatherers who will need to help collect 4 of each rare commodity in the game
[*=left]There will be a neccessary, preloading date before the expedition where all traders are loaded with the rares that they will be bringing on the expedition.
[*=left]I'd like this date to be at least a week or two before the expedition launch date. maybe shorter if required so the Traders can play before the launch.
Yes, but there are two sets of calculations in the website you cited. The 40m^3 value is for a hydroponics system that can feed one person on plants. The algae-based systems further down in the website have much smaller volumes, with the disadvantage being that they just make green slime for our spacers to eat. But if we're just looking for a way to turn waste into food printer grist, they're probably just fine.
Sign me up as a Gatherer. Fwd to me the details of what and by when I should do them. Cheers.
Heads-up, the list of rare commodities in the first post is missing two:
- "Harma Silver Sea Rum", available at Gabriel Enterprise, Harma
- "Onionhead Beta Strain", available at La Cosa City, HIP 112974
If you need any longer-term storage, Give me a shout.
I have signed up as logistics.
I signed up today. I'm just a simple space trucker. Figure I'd come check out what all this other side of the galaxyness is all about. You can read my daily tweets https://twitter.com/topherconnors
I currently truck with a T-9 and you can sign me up for 500+ units for the convoy. Shoot, I been figuring on maybe expanding my 9. I think if I remove bulkheads L34-Q39 I might be can get 700 units in my 9 by the time we leave. Well... better keep it at 500 cause if I got the space I'm gonna want to load up one of them 91m credit scoopers. Won't that be sumthin.
A shame the trucker position got cut, it's what drew me to the FL role. But the idea of hauling rares as far as they could possibly go just for the hell of it has its appeal, too. It'll be interesting to see if all 134 rares make it to Beagle Point, or how many are lost along the way.
Also, Jaques Station sells a rare, so would someone have to fly all the way to Colonia to collect it and then fly back to the bubble in time for the expedition's send-off, or would they just divert to Colonia to pick some up after hitting SagA*?
There must be plenty of things this caravan is going to need other than food stuff. Medicines is one example.
I've signed up to DW2 with Fleet Logistics Role.
So feel free to count me in as a Trucker.
Currently only have a 32 cargo viable Dolphin and will have to reserve 2T for a Hutton Mug and some Centauri Gin to drink at Beagle Point, rest I can carry whatever food is needed.
Hi Olivia. I'm happy to help you coordinate on Xbox. Let me know what you'd like doingoo~ thanks for the interest! It's not a done done deal but it would be something I'd like to discuss with folks closer to the date when we have a better idea of how many people are on the expedition and how many people are interested.
Right now there's going to be a rework in fleetcomm to lay the groundwork for channels and roles to accomodate Distant Worlds. When that's done, we can talk and organise more. Keep letting folks know about the expedition and expressing your interest in the expedition.
We do need an Xbox lead and PS4 lead to help coordinate Gatherers to Traders. Gatherers don't have to be on the expedition to participate. Though because of that we do have to be wary when loading up traders.
Pollycough, I think that's where you might come in handy.