Creating an alt shows me how hard the credits rain down.

But do not forget you have an extensive knowledge of the game. You are not supposed to have that as a fresh cmdr :D
Did you consider that ?
I did the same thing a while back... It took no time before I could get a Federal Gunship and had nearly a billion in credits. I think that was the beginning of the end for me. The game didn't challenge me. I also got lazy, with my main account I could buy/sell ships and modules whenever it was convenient.
Really ? My first billion was with the last CG. Technically speaking, I did more than a bil, I magine, as I have a fully kitted fed corvette, but I sure didn't have a bil when I could have bought the gunship. My max money at once was about 500mil.



I started to play a few months back, and my experience is much different than yours. For the sole reason that I didn't know all the tricks. My first foray with the sidewinder, I took all the bounty from the same faction guys at the station, thinking they'd stack. They obviously did not. Pls note that I did it on my own, without being aware of bounty stacking.
I didn't know about energy pips (I don't think they even talk about them in the tutorial). Took me forever to kill something, the lasers were just draining the distributor crazy fast.
Didn't know about scanning beacon to know where to go, and the scanner was witchcraft at this stage of the game (there are literally no ingame tutorial about it).

Took me about 4h for what, 1mil ?

I then went to do a bit of road to riches with a hauler, thanks to internet guides, and then a bit of explo of my own because I was able to buy the aspX.

Made enough money to buy a crusader (I wanted a fighter bay). And meh gear (like B and C, and A for the shield). And let me tell you, it was not easy.

Also, there is a lot of discrepancy between reward and content. You know it, I know it now, but the noob doesn't.

Engineering mat. I went for a pristine planet with the mat I needed, dropped in a "geological" mining. Took me hours for very little. Eventually, I found out that you could make a ton in biological anomalies, and the jameson crash etc...
Bounty. It's very hard to find bounty as a newb. Simply because they are very rarely offered unless you are friendly with the faction. This is explained nowhere, and it was a real issue.
Some content are just not worth it. Like CZ. They are much harder than the average pirate, but reward much less. Go figure. Even exploration. Mapping the same earth like planet than a thousand people already did will get you 650k+. Scanning a complete undiscovered star system, next to nothing. Pretty much all the system I found, people didn't bother to scan the planet because they were not EWL/water world, why bother ? Finding a rare anomaly in space, and scanning a lifeform there ? 25K voucher. For real.


Elite dangerous is a game where the most intuitive thing is usually the least efficient one. That knowledge comes from experience.

Finally, I want to add that a lot of content is tuned around engineering. Not max everything, but at least a bit of it. Try fighting a NPC with a un-engineered shield, with no guardian shield booster, see how fast it drops. Especially in CZ, It's ridiculous.



So yes, your knowledge made the credit rain. A real beginner will struggle much more. (Insert surprised pikachu face here.). Heck, I'm still not the best at making credits fly.
I did core mining, it was fun, but it took me ages to find rocks, and didn't even earned enough to pay the ship and gear after a few hours.
I do bounty stacking, but they don't award as much as people claim they reward, perhaps because I play solo. Also, it takes forever to rotate the board until you have enough of them.
I tried the trading with expansion system, but since I'm not allied with the faction, I don't have magical 50mil mission. Oh well.
I don't do robigo, besides for the crystal/biotech mats when needed. It's boring AF.
 
The reason I have such beef with the credits related out-of-balance is Elite is going for a realism vibe, so I expect its economy (not just markets but everything related to money) to follow that theme, but it doesn't, far from it.

If I may use NMS as a counter example - that's very arcadey in nature (no physics model to speak of, simplistic controls & systems, not to mention its cartoony visuals), so I don't really care about how realistic or not its in-game economy really is as a result.
 
But do not forget you have an extensive knowledge of the game. You are not supposed to have that as a fresh cmdr :D
True but if a new player were to go look at a tutorial channel on youtube (because they will likely have to do this) it would just tell them how to earn "mega bucks" or "ludicrous amounts of space chedder" in a day. You don't really need extensive knowledge to do any of these activities.
 
Did you consider that ?

Really ? My first billion was with the last CG. Technically speaking, I did more than a bil, I magine, as I have a fully kitted fed corvette, but I sure didn't have a bil when I could have bought the gunship. My max money at once was about 500mil.



I started to play a few months back, and my experience is much different than yours. For the sole reason that I didn't know all the tricks. My first foray with the sidewinder, I took all the bounty from the same faction guys at the station, thinking they'd stack. They obviously did not. Pls note that I did it on my own, without being aware of bounty stacking.
I didn't know about energy pips (I don't think they even talk about them in the tutorial). Took me forever to kill something, the lasers were just draining the distributor crazy fast.
Didn't know about scanning beacon to know where to go, and the scanner was witchcraft at this stage of the game (there are literally no ingame tutorial about it).

Took me about 4h for what, 1mil ?

I then went to do a bit of road to riches with a hauler, thanks to internet guides, and then a bit of explo of my own because I was able to buy the aspX.

Made enough money to buy a crusader (I wanted a fighter bay). And meh gear (like B and C, and A for the shield). And let me tell you, it was not easy.

Also, there is a lot of discrepancy between reward and content. You know it, I know it now, but the noob doesn't.

Engineering mat. I went for a pristine planet with the mat I needed, dropped in a "geological" mining. Took me hours for very little. Eventually, I found out that you could make a ton in biological anomalies, and the jameson crash etc...
Bounty. It's very hard to find bounty as a newb. Simply because they are very rarely offered unless you are friendly with the faction. This is explained nowhere, and it was a real issue.
Some content are just not worth it. Like CZ. They are much harder than the average pirate, but reward much less. Go figure. Even exploration. Mapping the same earth like planet than a thousand people already did will get you 650k+. Scanning a complete undiscovered star system, next to nothing. Pretty much all the system I found, people didn't bother to scan the planet because they were not EWL/water world, why bother ? Finding a rare anomaly in space, and scanning a lifeform there ? 25K voucher. For real.


Elite dangerous is a game where the most intuitive thing is usually the least efficient one. That knowledge comes from experience.

Finally, I want to add that a lot of content is tuned around engineering. Not max everything, but at least a bit of it. Try fighting a NPC with a un-engineered shield, with no guardian shield booster, see how fast it drops. Especially in CZ, It's ridiculous.



So yes, your knowledge made the credit rain. A real beginner will struggle much more. (Insert surprised pikachu face here.). Heck, I'm still not the best at making credits fly.
I did core mining, it was fun, but it took me ages to find rocks, and didn't even earned enough to pay the ship and gear after a few hours.
I do bounty stacking, but they don't award as much as people claim they reward, perhaps because I play solo. Also, it takes forever to rotate the board until you have enough of them.
I tried the trading with expansion system, but since I'm not allied with the faction, I don't have magical 50mil mission. Oh well.
I don't do robigo, besides for the crystal/biotech mats when needed. It's boring AF.
And your point is?

I fully understand that I have knowledge, my point is that there is no real benefit from starting out with a new character. Money, reputation and just about anything else is easy to come by. I like mining, made quick profits from that. Still can, but you can make a ton of money in Res zones killing stuff. The game just throws money at you anymore.

It was a lot harder back before Horizons. Money, unless you went in search of the few gold Mines, wasn't that easy to come by. Heck, a trip to Maia from the center of the bubble in a stripped down FAS that managed 14 ly was a journey!

Now, credits galore and magical engineering, boring.
 
How about something like docking/storage fees for stored ships?
I'd be happy with that! Any way to eat up Credits really.....

My main ideas would be -
  • Increase cost of re-fueling
  • Increase cost of repairs
  • Increase cost of ammunition
  • Re-design rebuy to be a weekly premium to pay (with the option not to pay it, but you don't get insurance)
  • Persistant hull integrity, which goes down very slowly (each repair would give it a lower 'total integrity' & add option in advanced maintenance to "Replace Hull")
  • Lower payouts for ALL missions/credit-earning opportunities
  • Some mechanic to "win big!" (so people can still get FC's) - first to discover a rich resource-deposit (untouched) has the opportunity to sell mining rights or something. Maybe a player/BGS diven stock exchange would work here?
  • This one isn't really Credit balancing, but.... Rework engineering to give smaller bonusses (G5 gets 15% or something, tops), to close the gap between 'meta' builds and everyone else, especially for weapons and shields! I'd also be tempted to nerf every (ship-based) weapon to make PVP less of a 1-sided, 5-second fight and give the 'underdog' a chance! Maybe gimballed weapons should only be available in Class 1/small options, while turrets should only be available as Class 3/Large?
I do like your docking/storage fees idea though! Docking fees could also bring a new 'Freeport' idea into the game - no fees to dock but commodities cost more to buy and make you less profits as the seller (maybe 'Illegal' goods could be less illegal in these places)?
 
And your point is?

I fully understand that I have knowledge, my point is that there is no real benefit from starting out with a new character. Money, reputation and just about anything else is easy to come by. I like mining, made quick profits from that. Still can, but you can make a ton of money in Res zones killing stuff. The game just throws money at you anymore.

It was a lot harder back before Horizons. Money, unless you went in search of the few gold Mines, wasn't that easy to come by. Heck, a trip to Maia from the center of the bubble in a stripped down FAS that managed 14 ly was a journey!

Now, credits galore and magical engineering, boring.
If you want to restart the game, then maybe not play to maximise profit, then complain that profit are way too easy ?

I dunno, just throwing random ideas.
 
The only way i found, given that i don't really want to buy a bigger ship atm, is rep+++ donations.
that's probably what i'll do too! My other idea was donate Tritium to random FC's (or sell it to them ridiculously cheap if I can't 'donate' it).
I have also decided as of the start of Odyssey, i'll be choosing mission rewards based on which gives me the lowest amount of CR - usually the Rep++ or Influence++ reward (or mats)
 
How about something like docking/storage fees for stored ships?

too many players would complain if its forced on them. Not disagreeing at all but it wouldnt work, well not at this late stage anyway.

True but if a new player were to go look at a tutorial channel on youtube (because they will likely have to do this) it would just tell them how to earn "mega bucks" or "ludicrous amounts of space chedder" in a day. You don't really need extensive knowledge to do any of these activities.

But they are also probably some of the most watched as a lot of players dont like making choices and having consequences.
  • Lower payouts for ALL missions/credit-earning opportunities
  • Some mechanic to "win big!" (

Using IF to hand in bounties helps but thats just maddening. As is buying and dumping cargo. The only solution I have that is optional and allows for all gameplay styles and all players is...

Taxes - call it what you like but an option in the Settings menu where you choose 10/25/50/75/100% of ALL payouts on ALL activities or can select individual ones and change it at any point so players dont make the wrong choice and no way back without resetting. Id much prefer all at say 10-25% myself, the rest goes in taxes.

No need to change mission boards or any text in game or affect anybody else playout, purely optional, just calculate the final actual payout based on tax rate which you set yourself. Nobody else affected and nobody elses gameplay or game style affected. Would also affect the rank system as Trade & Explo are both Credit based but that suits me fine as well. Inf & Rep works the same as does everything else, its just the only way to choose the equivalent of Easy / Hard / Extreme / Survival mode which is missing.

Only problem might be certain BGS activities which Id leave at the original rate and count as though 100% payout towards BGS just to be fair. Surely thats possible even if player only gets 10% actual payout.

And just to rub salt in the wound, listen to this @LaveRadio episode where they played original Elite on various platforms. Just listen to the trade profits and remember how good it used to be when you felt great for actually earning something and felt like youd achieved something and skill and knowledge meant something.

Retro Lave Episode 10 – Elite Christmas Special

 
My fleet carrier is what makes credits meaningful to me, especially since I don't play as often as I used to. When I'm taking missions, I'm not thinking about what ships or modules I'll buy (I already have the fleet I want), but rather how many weeks of my FC lease those credits will pay for.

So while most people bemoan the costs of fleet carrier services, I actually appreciate these costs, as it gives me motivation to earn credits when I play.
 
It certainly didn't rain credits on me as a new player, and it certainly doesn't now. Although I earn a lot more.
I think my first bounty was maybe 15,00 credits in the beginning. Now, I just ran an engineered, A rated Eagle in a low res and came away with with 2 million in 15 minutes. The prices for ships and modules haven't gone up, it RAINS money now.
 
I think my first bounty was maybe 15,00 credits in the beginning. Now, I just ran an engineered, A rated Eagle in a low res and came away with with 2 million in 15 minutes. The prices for ships and modules haven't gone up, it RAINS money now.
Maybe don't play "tag an anaconda for the cops" in res then ? Just thinking out loud.
 
But do not forget you have an extensive knowledge of the game. You are not supposed to have that as a fresh cmdr :D
Yeah, though between Youtube and Discord, that knowledge is easy to come by now. Hell, with wing missions, you can practically become an ED billionaire in a medically induced coma.
 
Maybe don't play "tag an anaconda for the cops" in res then ? Just thinking out loud.

I could limit myself to nothing but frame shift jumping and refueling until I ran out of credits, but that doesn't address the issue that as soon as someone has a modicum of knowledge they can go to a REZ take three shots at a Conda and collect some G5's and make a million thus bypassing almost every small hull in the game. Repeat a few more times and bypass all of them.

Like going out in Skyrim taking one swing at boss dragon while city guard beats it down, walk outside, walk back in, repeat. Then game rains veteran level XP points, gold, and top-tier weapons onto the player. This would completely obviate the need to walk around killing wolves and taking quests. Of course Skyrim had a narrative prior to sandbox play. My point is that yes... you can force yourself to take no action that results in gain. I can wake out just before defeating the Anaconda, take only courier missions with lowest payout. That does not change the fact that with any knowledge of how to play, the credits pour in like Niagara Falls.
 
I could limit myself to nothing but frame shift jumping and refueling until I ran out of credits, but that doesn't address the issue that as soon as someone has a modicum of knowledge they can go to a REZ take three shots at a Conda and collect some G5's and make a million thus bypassing almost every small hull in the game. Repeat a few more times and bypass all of them.

Like going out in Skyrim taking one swing at boss dragon while city guard beats it down, walk outside, walk back in, repeat. Then game rains veteran level XP points, gold, and top-tier weapons onto the player. This would completely obviate the need to walk around killing wolves and taking quests. Of course Skyrim had a narrative prior to sandbox play. My point is that yes... you can force yourself to take no action that results in gain. I can wake out just before defeating the Anaconda, take only courier missions with lowest payout. That does not change the fact that with any knowledge of how to play, the credits pour in like Niagara Falls.
Maybe don't play "tag an anaconda for the cops" in res then ? Just thinking out loud.
I picked a random spot to drop in the ring, no cops, same result in the Alpha and that Eagle wasn't fully A rated. The payouts were the same as Horizons before you complain about that. Like photomankc says "the credits pour in like Niagara Falls" , mission payouts for +1 million credits are easy to come buy. I watched a friend play for about a week and he was in an Anaconda. It took me a couple of months to get to an ASP, he had that on day 2 and fully A rated on the same day.
 
That does not change the fact that with any knowledge of how to play, the credits pour in like Niagara Falls.
That was my point all along. The game is far from being equal in its rewards. With knowledge, you know how to maximise profits.

Don't tell me doing USS missions, or CZ mission with a non engineered medium ship is very efficient when it comes to money making.
I picked a random spot to drop in the ring, no cops, same result in the Alpha and that Eagle wasn't fully A rated. The payouts were the same as Horizons before you complain about that. Like photomankc says "the credits pour in like Niagara Falls" , mission payouts for +1 million credits are easy to come buy. I watched a friend play for about a week and he was in an Anaconda. It took me a couple of months to get to an ASP, he had that on day 2 and fully A rated on the same day.
Oh yeah, mission for 1mil exist for a new-ish player.

Also, 50ish millions in 2days for a new player means he either found a guide, most likely road to riches, or grinded really hard. Source, the asp was my second ship after the cheap hauler. And I paid for it with RtR. The mission payout was low, and so were the bounty.
 
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