Creating an alt shows me how hard the credits rain down.

So in prep for Odyssey I decided to make an alternate CMDR and to play it very different from the main player. I mean what motivation does a multi-billionaire fleet admiral really have to throw on a suit and fight it out on the ground? Figured I would try and play the new character really lean and someone that has to stick to the periphery systems. Staying in anarchy systems and taking dark-side missions and hauling. Just get him in position to jump into Odyssey with enough to suit up and a touch of ship engineering.

It's turned out "Lean" has been all but impossible if you intend to engage in the PvE side of the game at all really. In a few days there's been 20 million in credits and that's just doing activities needed for mats, reputation, and minor self-defense while scooping spilled cargo in the REZ sites. Honestly credits just pour in. Even when you take active and intentional choices to reduce them it's still a waterfall. Hell the Sidewider went in the garbage bin with JUST the income from repositioning 70LY outside the starting point. Why not just offer us all the choice of several different start-up ship at this point and stop pretending it matters to start in a Sidewinder? Might even be less frustrating to new players who's only bar to this is that they don't know yet how easy it all is. Start up in a Cobra / Eagle / or Hauler.

There really is almost no point to credits as I have felt for a while, but wasn't sure if that was just because my CMDR was a rich fat-cat now. It turns out though that, no there is absolutely no reason what-so-ever to remain in a small or even cheap medium and really work to outfit and upgrade it. The rebalance of some activities and credits was good in my opinion it made them useful and worthwhile for long-term players to keep engaging with them and mining needed to stop being the only activity that earned any money. However it's lent itself now to basically making the early game ONLY mats and rank. I mean one or two evenings playing tag in a REZ site and you'd never need to worry about 'which ship and what modules' again. With 32T of cargo space you're already to ~1M trade runs if you feel so inclined and have the purchase capitol which is a few minutes of bounties away from any commander with a single pulse laser to their name.

I know. The horse is dead, it's been picked clean by vultures, and the bones are bleached but the scaling of income is just so busted to crap. So much of the interesting things to do are completely lost to the bloat very early in the game. Really I'm having more fun this way than I did with my hauling/mining start (and don't get me wrong I enjoyed those too) but until I made a conscious choice to make my credit life harder there really was no way I would have really considered them.

All that said I'm having a blast in the alternate. Trying to get my little Viper Mk4 beefed up and fight it out using just that ship and basic modules has been fun and put some challenge back into activities and doing all those mission types I avoided the first go-round is fun unto itself. If you are a long-term player and you've considered it but haven't done it then I'd say go for it!
 
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I did the same thing a while back... It took no time before I could get a Federal Gunship and had nearly a billion in credits. I think that was the beginning of the end for me. The game didn't challenge me. I also got lazy, with my main account I could buy/sell ships and modules whenever it was convenient.

I miss the early days when every upgrade was a challenge, you had to think it through. Engineering really ruined this game and the credit bloat killed it. I tried to put limits on my new account, but in the end, it really did nothing to improve gameplay. I've thought about getting Odyssey for the second account and resetting the commander but with what I saw in the Alpha it will take no time before I'm flying anything and have a billion in the bank.

I still enjoy flying the ships and all, but it really is a bit pointless.
 
I did the same thing a while back... It took no time before I could get a Federal Gunship and had nearly a billion in credits. I think that was the beginning of the end for me. The game didn't challenge me. I also got lazy, with my main account I could buy/sell ships and modules whenever it was convenient.

I miss the early days when every upgrade was a challenge, you had to think it through. Engineering really ruined this game and the credit bloat killed it. I tried to put limits on my new account, but in the end, it really did nothing to improve gameplay. I've thought about getting Odyssey for the second account and resetting the commander but with what I saw in the Alpha it will take no time before I'm flying anything and have a billion in the bank.

I still enjoy flying the ships and all, but it really is a bit pointless.
I thought for a long time that powerplay was supposed to be the end-game activity, the thing that brought the "point" to it all. What actually IS the point of all of these nice game loops they've created if they aren't tied together into a purpose? I feel like PP or something like it would have been perfect to tie these loops into. Could you imagine how much fun Odyssey conflict zones would be, trying to capture or steal things at an outpost in order to increase your power's influence? Major missed opportunities IMO
 
But do not forget you have an extensive knowledge of the game. You are not supposed to have that as a fresh cmdr :D

Oh I acknowledge that. Starting out I had a serious fear of risk and that leads to trader/miner startup, but of course mining was another activity that simply fire-hosed you in credits as soon as you learn what and where to mine. Hell I even avoided Painite mining after a couple runs because it was just insanity. Somehow the entire Galaxy just could not be satiated in it's need for a decorative mineral?

I keep thinking back to my first try much closer to ED's launch. The credits for missions were so dreadful it was an instant turn-off. I recall things like 300cr being common. I flew a couple but barely made enough to cover fuel and figured It'd be a decade before I had a useful ship. Then I tried again a few later and really nothing less than 10,000 was out there while fuel and repair was now completely trivial. So I went with it. But really a middle-way would be good. It's like they have so many binary switches at FDev. "Oh this didn't work set to minimum, flip the switch and multiply by 10,000. This was too much so flip the switch and divide by 1000".
 
I thought for a long time that powerplay was supposed to be the end-game activity, the thing that brought the "point" to it all. What actually IS the point of all of these nice game loops they've created if they aren't tied together into a purpose? I feel like PP or something like it would have been perfect to tie these loops into. Could you imagine how much fun Odyssey conflict zones would be, trying to capture or steal things at an outpost in order to increase your power's influence? Major missed opportunities IMO
I've not done power play, mostly because of my job, I travel frequently and that makes it a chore to keep up with. But I think power play should be added to Odyssey.

It's one of the many missed opportunities in Odyssey, but one can hope.
 
The rebalance of some activities and credits was good in my opinion it made them useful and worthwhile for long-term players to keep engaging with them and mining needed to stop being the only activity that earned any money. However it's lent itself now to basically making the early game ONLY mats and rank

Well, the credits shower are the effect of the "balances" from the end of last year.
People asked for it - and FD delivered.

IMO it was much better before the balance when mining was the main credit making activity, since mining can be easily skipped entirely without affecting the general gameplay.
Anyone wanted credits - mining took care of that.
Anyone wanted a slower start - avoid mining and everything was fine... sort of

My epic alt got 5 millions shading the police in a res site inside starting zone. And first target was a wanted Anaconda... bam almost a million. Only because i grazed it with my puny pulse laser.
Then i decided that was sick enough not to worth the effort - and I transferred 1bn from my Steam Carrier and forgot about credits.
(Until the last CG, that is... it pushed my epic alt balance from 450 millions to 5.2 billions)
 
The funny thing is if you stick to mission boards you initially slow yourself down in terms of wealth generation (that changes as soon as you improve your faction REP, yielding 3-4m for simple scan missions for example - bulk mining and trading does at least require bigger ships to be productive enough).

You can make millions even in the starter zone by tagging pirates in your Startwinder in a High RES (only requirements are some patience and decent trigger finger control - with the right spawn of NPCs 1m credits takes maybe 30 minutes, possibly less). With that you buy a Cobra 3, kit that out for Core mining, and you'll be swimming in credits in no time; and if you're bored of mining, just buy a 250k credit surface scanner and jump from system to system, mapping the High Metal, WW & ELW planets and more millions come at you with ease.

I considered wiping my main account for EDO, or at least a soft reset via moving my FC and fleet to a far system (or just deleting the fleet altogether) but there's no point... I will swim in credits in a few days and just be copying gameplay I've been through a number of times already.

It's broken beyond repair and I don't expect this ever to be fixed/balanced properly, as that would require some rather severe adjustments on the expense side of things. The outcry would be deafening. Add to that the nu-CG payouts and credits is just a meaningless number that refuses to go down.
 
When I bought the game it was under the assumption it was the basics of a game that was going to be fleshed out with extra features & gameplay loops. 'Rebalancing' wasn't something I'd considered would be a thing, although of course I can appreciate that game designers can get things wrong & player feedback can help make the game better.

So the clamping down on lucrative loopholes, and tweaking payouts was understandable, maybe it was initially too hard for most & increasing bounties & CZ bond values allowed more choices; I no longer had to trade to earn money so I could afford to kill for combat rank or outfit an explorer, I could specialise if I chose to & earn enough for any activity to be at least profitable if not the best way to earn money.

Earning money wasn't the motivation for me, only earning enough to be able to do what I wanted to do (PvP rebuy funds still works this way). I understand that desire for players to be able to specialise, that was lacking at launch.

Over the first few years there were lots of balancing tweaks to weapons & defence, to jump range & power requirements that relaxed restrictions (like the Vulture & even more noticeably the FDL). More choice, fewer restrictive dilemmas, and that power creep made the game easier even without an increase in credit earning potential. Understandably a lot of players wouldn't want to give that up.

There were always opportunities to earn lots of cash at a far higher rate than 'normal', but they were usually unintended & always patched out eventually, until the 3.3 patch in late 2018 dramatically increased mining & exploration payouts, trading profit increased after this, and more recently trading & combat payouts have been increased yet again.

This isn't rebalancing, it's ever spiralling power creep.

There's no going back :)
 
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It's broken beyond repair and I don't expect this ever to be fixed/balanced properly, as that would require some rather severe adjustments on the expense side of things. The outcry would be deafening. Add to that the nu-CG payouts and credits is just a meaningless number that refuses to go down.

Unfortunately I believe that's largely true. I think that there are things that could be done to help but as you point out they would be screamed at like angry monkeys.

1.) Scale top available mission income to relevant rank. No multi-million missions for mostly harmless CMDRs.
2.) Bounty pay is based on % damage. No two-shot Anaconda payouts in your Sidewider with pulse lasers.
3.) Exploration payouts fall to towards 10% as a system is scanned multiple times. Why would you be paid big money for discovering an ELW that has been discovered 10,000 times before that?

Trade is tougher. To keep it compelling to high-credit players you need the prices and profit high, but that really means that even small cargo haulers are going to be making bank past 16T or so. Maybe set it up so best buying prices are scaled up with reputation and rank too.

Medium ships and module pricing wouldn't be so laughable if the credit flow was not so much a fire-hose in the early weeks of play.
 
Maybe set it up so best buying prices are scaled up with reputation and rank too.

Medium ships and module pricing wouldn't be so laughable if the credit flow was not so much a fire-hose in the early weeks of play.

I don't disagree with that but its overly simplistic imho.

What Elite doesn't provide is a mission profile like:
"you buy some hugely expensive ware or commodity in the order of say 200M cr and then have to deliver it somewhere when there is a genuine risk you will be intercepted/fined/destroyed and can loose the lot if you muck it up - with say a reward of 500M cr for success"

So you take on the risk of losing 250M cr or more but the rewards are very high if you pull it off, and btw you'll need a highly engineered top tier ship to even stand a chance.
 
From what I saw in Alpha, if you just stick to the Odyssey side of things - walking missions, foot CZs, the bits of trade and exploration and space combat you get on the side from doing those but not specifically focusing on profitable trade routes, RES farming, etc. - you'll get millions pretty easily but not tens of millions.

Trade is tougher. To keep it compelling to high-credit players you need the prices and profit high, but that really means that even small cargo haulers are going to be making bank past 16T or so. Maybe set it up so best buying prices are scaled up with reputation and rank too.
Rather than scaling up rewards with rep and rank it might be easier to scale down prices. For every Elite rank you hold, you get a 15% discount on all outfitting, shipyard and consumables. Smaller discounts for ranks below Elite. (Or, perhaps, a single Elite rank gives a 90% discount, but different ships and modules are tied to a different rank)


Ultimately I think the problem is that prices are just over too big a range, though. Small ships <1 million, large ships ~500 million (give or take a lot depending on loadout), fleet carriers 5 billion+. There's no possible earning rate that can make prices meaningful across that entire range.

(It'd be too big a break with the genre, but scrapping credits entirely and just making modules available for free as rank-based unlocks would probably be better than what we haven now)
 
I've said this before, many times, but I want to have to work to get Credits! I want to struggle to afford to keep my Cobra in usable condition for flying through hard vacuum, I want to have to choose between ammunition and fuel, I want to have to make a choice between choosing the well-paying mission or helping my chosen Faction.....
 
Why not just offer us all the choice of several different start-up ship at this point and stop pretending it matters to start in a Sidewinder? Might even be less frustrating to new players who's only bar to this is that they don't know yet how easy it all is. Start up in a Cobra / Eagle / or Hauler.
Yup, as someone who was new not all that long ago (compare to many of you) and who is -still- learning the ropes and figuring things out here and there. I can attest to that.

Within my first day or two playing i could upgrade from my sidewinder to any of the first tier small ships. And that's without knowing any money making 'tricks' except honk every system, sell it where you can.

The fact that i went back to my sidewinder not long after, is another thing altogether.
 
Galactic.

Economic.

Reset.

It's the only way to "fix" it now. And it's never gonna happen.

That's something that happens in other games by releasing a sequel. In an MMO I gather it's common to implement a new form of currency, just as engineering mats has done for Horizons.
 
Yup, as someone who was new not all that long ago (compare to many of you) and who is -still- learning the ropes and figuring things out here and there. I can attest to that.

Within my first day or two playing i could upgrade from my sidewinder to any of the first tier small ships. And that's without knowing any money making 'tricks' except honk every system, sell it where you can.

The fact that i went back to my sidewinder not long after, is another thing altogether.
My PC Cmdr was only started around Christmas, so I recently had the 'early days' experience too - I found it alot of fun until I didn't have to worry about CR anymore (which took about 2 hours).

My Ship progression went Sidey > Cobra III > Krait Phantom > (back to my) Cobra III - I find smaller, more manouverable ships more fun!
I've also owned a few Lakon Type-x ships and both Asps, but nothing beats the Cobra!
I still keep my Phantom for a bit of CG hauling now and again and have a (yet) untouched DBX which I'll be spending most (if not all) of my CR on before Odyssey release (just to try and get my CR balance down to somewhere near 1-million (and then struggle to keep it there!)).
 
I've said this before, many times, but I want to have to work to get Credits! I want to struggle to afford to keep my Cobra in usable condition for flying through hard vacuum, I want to have to choose between ammunition and fuel, I want to have to make a choice between choosing the well-paying mission or helping my chosen Faction.....
How about something like docking/storage fees for stored ships?
 
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