PvP Behold, the great Fdev Ganker filter..

It's basically showing how PvP'ers come into the game wanting to play a certain role, but bad or missing game design reduces them to ganking because it's the only PvP you can really do with any reliability.
I've a really thin line to walk here.

You don't need an excuse to whack noobs 24/7 in this game; however, if you feel compelled to come up with an excuse for a poor play-style then blaming FDev is the wrong way to go about it. Such a flimsy excuse leaves me wondering why you don't go play a game where you can be a contributing member to the PvP community.
 
I've a really thin line to walk here.

You don't need an excuse to whack noobs 24/7 in this game; however, if you feel compelled to come up with an excuse for a poor play-style then blaming FDev is the wrong way to go about it. Such a flimsy excuse leaves me wondering why you don't go play a game where you can be a contributing member to the PvP community.
You're entitled to your opinion but this has happened again and again over the last 5 years... Also who says I'm not a contributing member of the PvP community? I've contributed more suggestions to these forums for example than 99% of the members, look at my sig if you're not convinced.
 
I've a really thin line to walk here.

You don't need an excuse to whack noobs 24/7 in this game; however, if you feel compelled to come up with an excuse for a poor play-style then blaming FDev is the wrong way to go about it. Such a flimsy excuse leaves me wondering why you don't go play a game where you can be a contributing member to the PvP community.
note to self: finally disagree with wargfoot on something.

ofc he doesn't need any excuse, and not sure he's asking for one either.

that nice graphic is no excuse for ganking, it's an infographic on the several layers at which frontier has gotten it wrong and failed to make possible what should have been their main mission in a multiplayer game: provide rich multiplayer gameplay. if you market a mmo of sorts you are expected to know and care about this stuff, they have shown neither, from design to policing passing through implementation. admire the results.

dunno about op's intentions and don't really care, he has some very solid points there.
 
You're entitled to your opinion but this has happened again and again over the last 5 years... Also who says I'm not a contributing member of the PvP community? I've contributed more suggestions to these forums for example than 99% of the members, look at my sig if you're not convinced.
Do not read my post as a personal attack.
The 'you' there is directed at people who use FDev as an excuse to behave poorly.
 
that nice graphic is no excuse for ganking, it's an infographic on the several layers at which frontier has gotten it wrong and failed to make possible what should have been their main mission in a multiplayer game: provide rich multiplayer gameplay. if you market a mmo of sorts you are expected to know and care about this stuff, they have shown neither, from design to policing passing through implementation. admire the results.
I don't disagree with the points until you get to the result which doesn't follow, IMHO.

People who enjoy ganking noobs do that because that is what they love - and they'll continue to do that regardless the other PvP offerings in the game.
I don't believe the chuckle-head who is claiming he ganks because the rest of the PvP sucks. (not the author)
If he really felt that way he'd buy any number of other games that have PvP that is balanced, focused, and working correctly.

Commanders that hang out in Deciat ganking noobs all night long for weeks on end are into that sort of thing.
That IS PvP for them.
They aren't doing it because of the failure of FDev.
 
I don't disagree with the points until you get to the result which doesn't follow, IMHO.

People who enjoy ganking noobs do that because that is what they love - and they'll continue to do that regardless the other PvP offerings in the game.
I don't believe the chuckle-head who is claiming he ganks because the rest of the PvP sucks. (not the author)
If he really felt that way he'd buy any number of other games that have PvP that is balanced, focused, and working correctly.

Commanders that hang out in Deciat ganking noobs all night long for weeks on end are into that sort of thing.
That IS PvP for them.
They aren't doing it because of the failure of FDev.
You're trying to change the focus of the conversation from general ganking to seal clubbing.. I never specified that in the OP.

And the issue is demonstrable - take for example The Code, AA and Iridium WIng as examples.. a piracy group, and two protective groups who have been around a long time. Many of the early members of these groups ended up joining SDC and similar groups because of the issues described in the graphic. Players want to fight for specific causes (be it lawful or outlaw), but when those causes are not viable or fail to live up to expectations then they just default to any PvP they can find... ganking is the least difficult PvP to find so they do that.

I'm not trying to make excuses or promote ganking or whatever. I'm just describing what happens in the PvP community when it receives so little consideration from Fdev.
 
PvP'ers don't often start out as gankers, here's how a ganker is usually created over time in Elite:

View attachment 140268

If I had as much time as the OP I'd edit this graphic to depict "majority GANKERS/some PvP guys" at the top.

The funnel just depicts the eras of false reasons that GANKERS have evolved and iterated through.

The bottom shows that the proportion of "majority GANKERS/some PvP guys" hasn't altered from top to bottom.



Instead of this false funnel of mistruth - how about the non-GANKERs in the top level "majority GANKERS/some PvP guys" - ie the "some PvP guys" either move on to a proper PvP game or go out there into the great yonder black with a "normal" ship (ie - a non uber-engineered, non combat optimised, fighter vessel) and just have some fun with it. Truly skilled PvP guys would have fun with this.

Failing that, I can honestly say that it isn't so much the game that "makes" GANKERS, it's that the GANKERS choose to be GANKERS as the first and foremost reason. Otherwise, they wouldn't be GANKERS.
 
You're trying to change the focus of the conversation from general ganking to seal clubbing.. I never specified that in the OP.
I don't know what the term 'ganker' means outside of a grossly uneven fight (1).
If by general ganking you mean equipped experienced commanders jumping other equipped experienced commanders - well, that ain't ganking.

I think the graphic is nice and well done.
I'm just picking on it when used to justify poor behavior by some people (not you).






NOTES
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1: Either by technical superiority or greater numbers.
 
If I had as much time as the OP I'd edit this graphic to depict "majority GANKERS/some PvP guys" at the top.

The funnel just depicts the eras of false reasons that GANKERS have evolved and iterated through.

The bottom shows that the proportion of "majority GANKERS/some PvP guys" hasn't altered from top to bottom.



Instead of this false funnel of mistruth - how about the non-GANKERs in the top level "majority GANKERS/some PvP guys" - ie the "some PvP guys" either move on to a proper PvP game or go out there into the great yonder black with a "normal" ship (ie - a non uber-engineered, non combat optimised, fighter vessel) and just have some fun with it. Truly skilled PvP guys would have fun with this.

Failing that, I can honestly say that it isn't so much the game that "makes" GANKERS, it's that the GANKERS choose to be GANKERS as the first and foremost reason. Otherwise, they wouldn't be GANKERS.
Do you have anything to backup your rebuttal other than the opinions of a PvEr who doesn't like gankers?

I have given an example of three well known PvP player groups who lost significant numbers to Gank squads... Two of which are no longer really relevant in the PvP community because of this (sorry AA and Iridium Wing, we don't hear much from you anymore).
 
I don't know what the term 'ganker' means outside of a grossly uneven fight (1).
If by general ganking you mean equipped experienced commanders jumping other equipped experienced commanders - well, that ain't ganking.

I think the graphic is nice and well done.
I'm just picking on it when used to justify poor behavior by some people (not you).
Ganking (gang-kill) simply means killing an outmatched opponent, the experience of the ganked is not specified.
 
Many of the early members of these groups ended up joining SDC
What was the saying? "if you can't beat them, join them?"

Anyway, i suspect the main reason for ganking is the fact that it is an activity that can consistently produce fast and rewarding results.
I mean, how long it takes to kill a noob or a non-pvper? 30s? 50s? 1 minute at most?
Guaranteed satisfaction and a cherry on top if the ganker gets a thread on the forums.

At the same time, how long does it take to kill another pvp-er? Especially when one in a strong pvp ship can highwake at basically any time.
So you spend a lot of time getting through thousands of megajoules of shields and/or thousands of hull points only to see the opponent highwake.

If FD would nerf shields a bit and remove module stacking by allowing military modules only in military slots, fights would be more fast&furious and a ganker could also be ganked.
 
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